BHA coming out against the E plus system

[Jimbee]

The number of tags is factored with the LO tags in consideration also. It’s not in addition to....The herd in NM is healthy.

And yes some tags would go back into the pool. But at 6% of tags for NR. 10% for the guided draw. 84% for residents. It doesn’t do much to move the needle when apps are up 80000 a year.

It’s a nice option if you strike out in the draw. And while yes there are extreme examples of prices getting stupid. And they most definitely have gone crazy since every influencer has shined a light on it. I have cold called landowners and built relationships and got some fun tags at reasonable prices. Met some cool people along the way. Why end another way to hunt for dedicated hunters ?

That makes sense, I just have this idea of crazy prices that price most regular people out, I'm open to changing my mind when presented with new information. I'm still not a fan of the system, however.

 

[Jimbee]

A little more on my perspective.....my mother in law works for an outfitter in NM. If I had a pile of cash I could go hunt elk, but I don't so my options are to hope and pray I draw a tag with low odds. It doesn't seem right to me that wealthy people have better access to a publicly owned, natural resource.

 

[trophyhill]

Tired arguments we’ve all heard for the last 10 years for sure. The tactic will be for groups like the BHA to pull on the heartstrings of non hunting voters to do the dirty work next. Kinda like what happened in CO with the wolves. Typical playbook of the socialist…….

 

[Ten Bears]

That makes sense, I just have this idea of crazy prices that price most regular people out, I'm open to changing my mind when presented with new information. I'm still not a fan of the system, however.

It’s definitely not perfect. But options are getting thinner every year for a great DIY hunt for the NR.

 

[Ten Bears]

A little more on my perspective.....my mother in law works for an outfitter in NM. If I had a pile of cash I could go hunt elk, but I don't so my options are to hope and pray I draw a tag with low odds. It doesn't seem right to me that wealthy people have better access to a publicly owned, natural resource.

I am definitely not wealthy. You’d be shocked at what I have scored a tag for by being friendly and some phone work. Also I have left cases of beer at the town store for a LO, sent Christmas cards, and genuinely made some friends trying to hunt out there.

 

[Jimbee]

Probably a wash by the time you count expenses..

That being said guys who don't profit from them, murder them on an industrial scale when the problem gets to bad.

Thing is most ranchers don't want anyone on their ground more than I want random people in my back yard..

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

How does this relate to the e plus system? Would said ranchers be okay with random people on their ground if they paid a lot of money? I don't understand what point you are trying to make?

 

[WRO]

I dont see any possible way it could be a wash. 48 hunters with lets say an average of $2k cost to hunt private land guided. (Intentionally low for arguments sake). That's $96k gross. So you're saying he has $46k in expenses?

It sounds to me like ranchers need to make the decision to allow people to hunt their land, whether that be for an affordable trespass fee or for free, or they can deal with elk on their land.

Your number is a little high, then you have food, subguides, taxes, insurance, payments to family members and it comes down significantly..

50k is buying hay that you have to replace because your crops no longer will feed the cattle through the winter.

I spend a significant amount of time with ranchers and outfitting, I've got a little more insight than the average guy..

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[RMM]

Your number is a little high, then you have food, subguides, taxes, insurance, payments to family members and it comes down significantly..

50k is buying hay that you have to replace because your crops no longer will feed the cattle through the winter.

I spend a significant amount of time with ranchers and outfitting, I've got a little more insight than the average guy..

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

So you're saying your friend is offering guided elk hunts on private land for less than $2k? I'm going to need his number

 

[Jimbee]

I am definitely not wealthy. You’d be shocked at what I have scored a tag for by being friendly and some phone work. Also I have left cases of beer at the town store for a LO, sent Christmas cards, and genuinely made some friends trying to hunt out there.

It’s definitely not perfect. But options are getting thinner every year for a great DIY hunt for the NR.

I definitely agree on thinner options, which makes me even more concerned about folks like you (and me) being denied access to hunt or reduced opportunities for tags due to cost and not being able to rely on good relations with landowners and being helpful, respectful, etc.

 

[WRO]

How does this relate to the e plus system? Would said ranchers be okay with random people on their ground if they paid a lot of money? I don't understand what point you are trying to make?

You do away with the eplus system, elk have no value and get killed at a much different scale.

No guaranteed tags, no guaranteed value for the hunting at which point the elk become pests.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[Jimbee]

Your number is a little high, then you have food, subguides, taxes, insurance, payments to family members and it comes down significantly..

50k is buying hay that you have to replace because your crops no longer will feed the cattle through the winter.

I spend a significant amount of time with ranchers and outfitting, I've got a little more insight than the average guy..

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Are there any benefits to the e plus system aside from making elk hunting profitable for landowners?

 

[canyonhunter47]

Your number is a little high, then you have food, subguides, taxes, insurance, payments to family members and it comes down significantly..

50k is buying hay that you have to replace because your crops no longer will feed the cattle through the winter.

I spend a significant amount of time with ranchers and outfitting, I've got a little more insight than the average guy..

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

In NM the tags are valid unit wide if you open your property to hunting. But the requirements are low for actually opening your property

 

[Jimbee]

You do away with the eplus system, elk have no value and get killed at a much different scale.

No guaranteed tags, no guaranteed value for the hunting at which point the elk become pests.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

I disagree with the idea that doing away with the e plus system would make elk lose value. People will still want to hunt them, I think the change would be that the land owner, or outfitter who controls the tags wouldn't get to pick the highest paying client. Landowners could still hire guides, guide themselves, charge lease or trespass fees, etc. Seems better for the average guy. Thoughts?

 

[Ten Bears]

Are there any benefits to the e plus system aside from making elk hunting profitable for landowners?

as we discussed another opportunity for the dedicated or NR that has saved up to have a hunt when striking out.

What’s wrong with landowners making money ? I am fine with it. It’s better than say Wyoming where the guides get subsidized as NRs can’t hunt the Wilderness without them.

Not everything is perfect, it just pisses me off to have BHA try to strip this option away when it’s own representation has used them to build their businesses and help cause the price jump and draw odds we see today. Now it’s not ok ?

 

[Jimbee]

as we discussed another opportunity for the dedicated or NR that has saved up to have a hunt when striking out.

What’s wrong with landowners making money ? I am fine with it. It’s better than say Wyoming where the guides get subsidized as NRs can’t hunt the Wilderness without them.

Not everything is perfect, it just pisses me off to have BHA try to strip this option away when it’s own representation has used them to build their businesses and help cause the price jump and draw odds we see today. Now it’s not ok ?

I definitely don't think there's anything wrong with landowners making money from hunters accessing their land or from services they provide. I have issue with landowners profiting from selling elk tags. In my opinion, BHA is attempting to increase public hunting opportunities.

 

[Ten Bears]

I definitely don't think there's anything wrong with landowners making money from hunters accessing their land or from services they provide. I have issue with landowners profiting from selling elk tags. In my opinion, BHA is attempting to increase public hunting opportunities.

If the tag numbers remain the same if they do away with the LO tags by putting them back in the general pool. How does that increase public hunting ? The tag numbers would stay the same. So yes lottery numbers would go up in very small numbers but the same amount of hunting would take place. Why not let some LOs make some cash, leave a option for someone willing to pay for the tag, or someone that has built relationships with LOs.

At the root of this is money. That’s what people have an issue with. But in this case why is it ok for BHA to profit by advertising and gaining membership off the very tag they now want to abolish ?

 

[Jimbee]

If the tag numbers remain the same if they do away with the LO tags by putting them back in the general pool. How does that increase public hunting ? The tag numbers would stay the same. So yes lottery numbers would go up in very small numbers but the same amount of hunting would take place. Why not let some LOs make some cash, leave a option for someone willing to pay for the tag, or someone that has built relationships with LOs.

At the root of this is money. That’s what people have an issue with. But in this case why is it ok for BHA to profit by advertising and gaining membership off the very tag they now want to abolish ?

The lottery numbers would go up a little, and i just don't think you should be able to buy your way to the front of the line, that's basically my point. Please explain BHA profiting and gaining membership, etc from the tags they're trying to abolish. I appreciate the discussion.

 

[S.Clancy]

My buddy loses 50k annually to elk in hay. That doesn't count broken fences, stack raids, etc..

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Thats nearly 200 tons at todays prices. Which basically means he has ~500 elk eating hay every day for almost 4 months.

Edit: I carried an extra 0. 500, not 5000

 

[RMM]

Thats nearly 200 tons at todays prices. Which basically means he has ~5000 elk eating hay every day for almost 4 months.

Sir, math has no place here. This is the internet for gods sake.

 

[Whiskey_Fish]

When you gain access to the property because the LO sells a unit wide tag is it open like an HMA in WY would be? Or more like an RFW property in CO where you have to have an escort?

I don’t really understand BHA’s stance on this one. I looked but can’t find the number on NM’s site. How many tags did LO’s sell last year?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk