Better "stock" up boys

[JWP58]

This is a side effect of for profit health care. Drugs make people rich, other things not so much.

This discussion has nothing to do with socialized healthcare.

 

[chuck.u.farley]

Huh?? I'm pretty sure parents and kids fear another school shooting. I'm not sure how you educate them to not fear this when there is about a 100% chance that it will happen again in the next few months.

But hey, enjoy your toys. Be sure to thank the kids that gave their lives to preserve your right to own a 30 round magazine.

NoWiser for the win!

Statements like these from "gun owners" are far more concerning than anything the anti gun crowd puts out there. Your ability to own a hunting rifle is a byproduct of a constitutional right and you don't seem to care or comprehend what the big picture is about. 2A has absolutely nothing to do with your hunting rifle. Go back a few pages and read flatlanderhuffandpuff's post about why the second amendment exists. He is spot on.

But hey, enjoy your hunting rifle. Right now it is down the list. The day will come when it is at the top.

 

[elkduds]

This discussion has nothing to do with socialized healthcare.

Mental health care IS health care. Mentally ill mass shooters absolutely have to do with access to mental health care. Shooters do not wake up one day w that kind of rage. They have to work @ it over time, and that time is our chance to prevent some, perhaps most shootings.

 

[gelton]

Mental health care IS health care. Mentally ill mass shooters absolutely have to do with access to mental health care. Shooters do not wake up one day w that kind of rage. They have to work @ it over time, and that time is our chance to prevent some, perhaps most shootings.

Sure but the problem with that logic is that 98% of these shootings are carried out by people who ARE under the care of a Dr...for...Mental Healthcare. Its the doc that is prescribing them psychotropic drugs whose own inserts state they can cause violent tendencies and suicide. They arent preventing squat but are the underlying similarity in most every one of these shootings. Its definitely not due to the lack of access to mental healthcare - in fact, its just the opposite.

 

[sndmn11]

The thing I am confused about is if it is legal in Wa to own a long gun when your 18 and he wont sell it to you how it isn't age discrimination, I mean if a cake baker gets sued for not selling a wedding cake to a gay couple for discrimination how can this guy not sell you a rifle when you are the legal age in Wa to own it.

Who cares? This is exactly what I was talking about with society being soft. He can sell what he wants to who he wants; he is a private business and he will either sink or swim with that policy and it is not worth a second thought, protest, or lawsuit.

 

[Desk Jockey]

The demographics of gun ownership in the U.S. | Pew Research Center

Interesting info on us gun ownership.

As far as bump stocks go, for me, I don’t need them and think the optics they present to the anti side make them an easy target. If the winds really start to shift against firearm ownership, gun owners are going to have to decide if they are willing to concede a few battles in order to win the bigger fight.

 

[colersu22]

Who cares? This is exactly what I was talking about with society being soft. He can sell what he wants to who he wants; he is a private business and he will either sink or swim with that policy and it is not worth a second thought, protest, or lawsuit.

I 100% agree with everything you said and have the same view as you but like you said with people being soft I am surprised no one has brought up the age discrimination. I am guessing from what was mentioned in the interview that he is going to lose a lot of business from past and potential customers because of the new policy.

 

[HookUp]

This argument is about hobby guns and not people defending their liberty from the government. The basis for gun regulation is not about disarming law abiding citizens its about common sense measures to keep citizens of a country with over 350 million people safe from the mentally ill and deranged.

 

[keithlmart]

This argument is about hobby guns and not people defending their liberty from the government. The basis for gun regulation is not about disarming law abiding citizens its about common sense measures to keep citizens of a country with over 350 million people safe from the mentally ill and deranged.

I think we should ban the internet and the media. No audience, no mass killings by any weapon, be it gun, car, fertilizer or poison.

There would be no point to the killing without the fame.



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[DougP]

The two most common arguments I keep hearing are:

1. Slippery slope - they’ll take all our guns
2. Knives/cars etc can kill and we aren’t banning them

Anyone that has ever studied rhetoric could easily point out that these are 2 textbook examples of logical fallacies. They play well in today’s political echo chamber world, but, in my opinion, they do nothing to advance the long-term interests of gun owners.

Just like with hunting rights, it’s not the “antis” that you need to turn, it’s the plurality of people in the middle that you have to keep on your side.

Bash me and my fellow gun owners that believe in common sense solutions over emotional and divisive arguments all you want.


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[JWP58]

The two most common arguments I keep hearing are:

1. Slippery slope - they’ll take all our guns
2. Knives/cars etc can kill and we aren’t banning them

Anyone that has ever studied rhetoric could easily point out that these are 2 textbook examples of logical fallacies. They play well in today’s political echo chamber world, but, in my opinion, they do nothing to advance the long-term interests of gun owners.

Just like with hunting rights, it’s not the “antis” that you need to turn, it’s the plurality of people in the middle that you have to keep on your side.

Bash me and my fellow gun owners that believe in common sense solutions over emotional and divisive arguments all you want.


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Well we do need common sense laws enacted by the government to make cars and knives safer. Why in the world can cars go 100mph? I dont think anyone needs to go above 50 or 60mph. Common sense would dictate cars would be governed at the highest speed limit in the state its sold. We need sensible legislation to save our children. And lets talk knives, why are knives allowed to be made so large and so sharp? We can do better, hopefully the government saves us with common sense laws. I know that sounds crazy, but im just looking at it from the angle of those that demand safety from an entity that cant provide it.

Ok say they ban high capacity magazines and "assault rifles", what will the answer be when a deranged evil person kills kids with a pump shotgun or bolt action rifle? More knee jerk feel good bans?

Nobody wants their kids to see armed officers in schools, but theyre fine with infringing on others rights...makes sense.

Ps you can keep saying "common sense" all you want, it doesnt make it so. The assault weapons ban from 1994-2004 did not lower the number of gun related deaths. Weve been down this road...

 

[AustinL911]

I'm so sick of the same old shit after every one of these events.

WTF are common sense gun laws? Who gets the be the expert on this subject? I've found the people spouting off about these tend to be the least educated on the subject.

What exactly is a meaningful conversation? I can blow holes in every anti-gun argument out there, and the insults usually start flying my way when I start doing so. I'm not sure how that's meaningful?

And if I hear 'compromise' one more time, I'm gonna lose it. Compromise is a two way street. I know what I stand to give up in this agreement. What exactly is the anti-gun crowd giving up? That's right. Compromise to them is they get what they want, and you lose what you want. Just like a meaningful discussion is one in which you agree with everything they say. Common sense gun laws are whatever their uneducated minds cook up.

We don't compromise?

-National Firearms Act 1934
-Federal Firearms Act 1938
-Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act 1968
-Gun Control Act 1968
-Firearm Owners Protection Act 1986
-Undetectable Firearms Act 1988
-Gun-Free School Zones Act 1990
-Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act 1993
-Federal Assault Weapons Ban 1994


We've given quite a bit already, yet the other side seems to easily forget. What has this done for you? People still kill each other. How many dead kids is acceptable? 17 is too much. Is 10 OK, though? Of course not. So when that continues to happen, and it will, something else will be on the chopping block. The end goal of the anti-gun side isn't any secret despite them trying to hide it; ban all guns. You can do that, but the problem remains. People kill other people. There's something brewing in American culture that's causing these people to snap. The gun is just their weapon of choice at the moment. Take it away all you want; the desire and drive to end life is still going to be there.

 

[541hunter]

Better "stock" up boys

The two most common arguments I keep hearing are:

1. Slippery slope - they’ll take all our guns
2. Knives/cars etc can kill and we aren’t banning them

Anyone that has ever studied rhetoric could easily point out that these are 2 textbook examples of logical fallacies. They play well in today’s political echo chamber world, but, in my opinion, they do nothing to advance the long-term interests of gun owners.

Just like with hunting rights, it’s not the “antis” that you need to turn, it’s the plurality of people in the middle that you have to keep on your side.

Bash me and my fellow gun owners that believe in common sense solutions over emotional and divisive arguments all you want.


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The slippery slope idea is a fallacy? Look at the history of gun control. Or let's take the grizzly bear ban up north as an example. They got it banned, did they stop and call it a day, nope now they are after black bears and cats.

Here I'll help ya out

Compromise & Our 2nd Amendment Cake, our Second Amendment and Calls to Compromise our 2A Rights - YouTube

The human tendency to think short term will be the downfall of humans.

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[chuck.u.farley]

The two most common arguments I keep hearing are:

1. Slippery slope - they’ll take all our guns
2. Knives/cars etc can kill and we aren’t banning them

Anyone that has ever studied rhetoric could easily point out that these are 2 textbook examples of logical fallacies. They play well in today’s political echo chamber world, but, in my opinion, they do nothing to advance the long-term interests of gun owners.

Just like with hunting rights, it’s not the “antis” that you need to turn, it’s the plurality of people in the middle that you have to keep on your side.

Bash me and my fellow gun owners that believe in common sense solutions over emotional and divisive arguments all you want.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry, Bud. My education didn't include taking classes on rhetoric.

Is it common sense to call for a ban on the firearm that is responsible for less than 3% of gun homicides? Sounds more emotional and divisive to me....

Here are the statistics. They don't break "assault weapons" out of the rifle category, so hard to tell what the real percentage is. Shotguns are responsible for more deaths. Should we ban those? Don't let facts get in the way of your argument though.

FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 4

 

[Sverimerica]

NoWiser for the win!

Statements like these from "gun owners" are far more concerning than anything the anti gun crowd puts out there. Your ability to own a hunting rifle is a byproduct of a constitutional right and you don't seem to care or comprehend what the big picture is about. 2A has absolutely nothing to do with your hunting rifle. Go back a few pages and read flatlanderhuffandpuff's post about why the second amendment exists. He is spot on.

But hey, enjoy your hunting rifle. Right now it is down the list. The day will come when it is at the top.

How do people in other countries that do NOT have the US 2A get hunting rifles then, if ones ability to have a hunting rifle comes from the 2nd amm., then places with no 2a should not have the ability to have a hunting rifle.... Yet, they do. They also are not plagued by the problem of students being murdered at school. I am going after your argument, not the general right to bear arms, just so we're clear.

I saw a good meme that came up the last time this happened, because mass shootings are a fairly frequent occurence in America, for some reason. It was something like, "lets make Guns illegal so then there will be no more shootings, just like we did for drugs!"

Obvious point being that illegalization doesnt equal eradicazation.


Edit: found the meme

Skickat från min G8142 via Tapatalk

 

[KBC]

This discussion has nothing to do with socialized healthcare.

While all the pro gun folks and the anti gun folks argue about guns, both sides are ignoring the bigger picture.

 

[KBC]

Sure but the problem with that logic is that 98% of these shootings are carried out by people who ARE under the care of a Dr...for...Mental Healthcare. Its the doc that is prescribing them psychotropic drugs whose own inserts state they can cause violent tendencies and suicide. They arent preventing squat but are the underlying similarity in most every one of these shootings. Its definitely not due to the lack of access to mental healthcare - in fact, its just the opposite.

The argument about health care and the assumption that it is all based on “big pharma” (haha I sound like a dirty hippy) is based on your current health care situation that is a for profit system. You are 100% correct that you need to get away from that but you aren’t looking at what a non profit health care system looks like. Our health care system is not perfect by any stretch but I believe it is more than just “here’s some meds I get paid in some way to prescribe”

This is a side effect of for profit health care. Drugs make people rich, other things not so much.

...

 

[AustinL911]

While all the pro gun folks and the anti gun folks argue about guns, both sides are ignoring the bigger picture.

I don't think it really has to do with healthcare at all. America has a deep-rooted cultural problem that other countries do not seem to have. As silly as it sounds, I think the 1st Amendment is as responsible for this as the 2nd Amendment is. Allow me to explain.

I'm truly convinced that Social Media has caused a rapid decline in American values, ethics, and morality. Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, whatever...they're all a part of this whole culture problem. Since their growth, many Americans have developed this insane urge for attention and 'Likes'. People love to blame Millennials (which I do think are a huge part of it), but I've seen grown ass adults do the same thing. How many people do you know have posted the dumbest shit just for attention? Narcissism has gotten out of hand. These shooters have just taken it to the extreme, and the Media makes sure their names are remembered for it. They can't find a way to be famous, so they choose infamy instead.

We need to find a way to rid ourselves of this cultural Attention Deficit Disorder that social media has propagated in the past 20 years. We need the media to take a stand and say, enough is enough; your name will not be remembered forever, the world will never remember who you were but a stinking piece of shit, and parents need to figure out how to hammer some morals into their kids heads from an early age. Take away their iPhones, get them involved in some outdoor activities, show them there's no need to show the entire world every aspect of their life. Be a good person. Raise a good family, and do things for them and yourself, but only because you want to; not because the rest of the world 'Likes' it.

 

[chuck.u.farley]

How do people in other countries that do NOT have the US 2A get hunting rifles then, if ones ability to have a hunting rifle comes from the 2nd amm., then places with no 2a should not have the ability to have a hunting rifle.... Yet, they do. They also are not plagued by the problem of students being murdered at school. I am going after your argument, not the general right to bear arms, just so we're clear.

I saw a good meme that came up the last time this happened, because mass shootings are a fairly frequent occurence in America, for some reason. It was something like, "lets make Guns illegal so then there will be no more shootings, just like we did for drugs!"

Obvious point being that illegalization doesnt equal eradicazation.


Edit: found the meme

Skickat från min G8142 via Tapatalk

Well, we are talking about the US aren't we? Here we have a constitutional amendment that guarantees the right to bear arms. How many other countries have that specific right spelled out in a document that is the foundation of their country? Would you agree that owning a hunting rifle is a subset of that amendment? In this country we also have a political class who's end goal is to get rid of guns, period. In the past they have been coy about this message, but they are getting more to the point recently. Some are calling for a repeal to 2A, bans on scary looking guns, etc. A few months back there was some idiot in NY calling for a ban on muskets because of the caliber. This is the thought process that we deal with. In, my opinion they will not stop until everything is gone. If their motives were really about saving lives, they would target pistols.

My point above is that if you want to sit back and watch as they chip away at the second amendment, then at some point the gun that you care about will be next on the list. I'm all for keeping kids safe. I have 2 in elementary school. I'm not all for creating new laws that don't do anything to address the problem while at the same time diminish constitutional rights.

 

[IdahoElk]

I don't think it really has to do with healthcare at all. America has a deep-rooted cultural problem that other countries do not seem to have. As silly as it sounds, I think the 1st Amendment is as responsible for this as the 2nd Amendment is. Allow me to explain.

I'm truly convinced that Social Media has caused a rapid decline in American values, ethics, and morality. Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, whatever...they're all a part of this whole culture problem. Since their growth, many Americans have developed this insane urge for attention and 'Likes'. People love to blame Millennials (which I do think are a huge part of it), but I've seen grown ass adults do the same thing. How many people do you know have posted the dumbest shit just for attention? Narcissism has gotten out of hand. These shooters have just taken it to the extreme, and the Media makes sure their names are remembered for it. They can't find a way to be famous, so they choose infamy instead.

We need to find a way to rid ourselves of this cultural Attention Deficit Disorder that social media has propagated in the past 20 years. We need the media to take a stand and say, enough is enough; your name will not be remembered forever, the world will never remember who you were but a stinking piece of shit, and parents need to figure out how to hammer some morals into their kids heads from an early age. Take away their iPhones, get them involved in some outdoor activities, show them there's no need to show the entire world every aspect of their life. Be a good person. Raise a good family, and do things for them and yourself, but only because you want to; not because the rest of the world 'Likes' it.

I agree if you put poor parenting and the lack of God in our lives at the top of the list.

We are never going to find a political solution for a morally sick country.