Best way to test various powders

[BillingsKeith]

I am going to start looking for a pet load for my 30-06 soon and have a few powders on hand to try, including H4350, Accurate 4350, Ramshot Hunter, and Reloader 16 (which I will probably just ignore since it's not going to be possible to restock after I use up the pound).

My question for you is, when testing for the best powder, what is your procedure? My inclination is to take an allegedly accurate powder and charge from a loading manual and first do a seating depth test, then do some ladder tests with the various powders after determining seating depth. Does this seem like the correct order of operations, or would you first zero in on a powder before doing seating depth. And how would you determine which powder?

Thanks

 

[Wrench]

Take 3 rounds of each charge weight from low book through pressure. Stuff it to the lands or .050 off the mag box.

Shoot two, if they are close....shoot the third. If not, don't waste your time...they'll never get closer.

Keep going till you see accuracy or pressure. If you see accuracy, push through it and record the window.

Once all that is done, then you can give a shit what the chronograph said. Sd can be fixed and speed isn't important enough to matter.

 

[seand]

I’d load 10 w/each powder, middle of the book charge weights well off the lands. Shoot 10rounds group with each powder. Pick one. Adjust charge weight to hit desired velocity. Done.

 

[Compressedload]

A reply not to your question... Was a H4350 guy in 30-06 but SB 6.5 worked great for the last loads I developed. Yes used magnum primers.

I normally aim to reach a velocity window supported by available data for that propellant. I also like to select a bullet upfront. Choose a seating depth - usually .03 to 0.5" off. May shoot one shot at a charge weight and other a few grains higher when next at the range or load at the range etc. Components are expensive now to shoot some unnecessary shots at a load so slow that I would never use it. Once in a window with which I am satisfied I will do any tuning that I intend to on OAL etc. These days if it is a crappy load I may change something like powder sooner than some years back but I still shoot rifles and cartridges where things like seating depth too often do seem to matter. Whereas my 6 CM for example doesn't seem to care.

The stuff that doesn't shoot okay on that basis seldom tunes to something repeatably okay without a component change. Years of chasing my tail to finally accept this...

 

[sandhillhunter]

Sd can be fixed.

Curious question as I’ve never heard this-

How do you fix SD? What else will that affect?


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[mauiarcher]

Curious question as I’ve never heard this-

How do you fix SD? What else will that affect?


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I was going to ask the same thing.

for my load development, I have went down a rabbit hole with Gordons reloading tool and little crow gunworks method. his videos can be lengthy but incredible info. I just crank it up to 1.5 or 2x play speed. GRT can analyze theoretical powder efficiency, speed, etc.

A big part of the philosophy is pick the bullet your want to shoot and find a powder that will shoot it accurately. I (and I am sure many others) were doing it backwards.....choosing a powder then trying different bullets. Tim makes an excellent point that a pound of powder and box of bullets are about the same relative price so that is a wash.

GRT increases the likelihood to finding a good potential powder and you can find a potential "sweet spot" with 10 shots (.3-.5 grain ladder), then you can hone in on that area say with another 6 shots or so, then potentially find a potential good load to validate and test at distance. You can then play with seating depth to fine tune. This can all be done in 30-40 shots total and a few range trips assuming you have decent form and technique.

All that said, for 30-06, if I was a betting man, I bet H4350 will work like a charm. I chased my tail recently (before the above) trying to make imr4895 work. When I checked the analytics in GRT, it wasn't the best option for my rifle. Trying to find a jug of H4350. A royal PIA to get it to HI (and expensive) if you can even find it.

Good luck

 

[Vern400]

If you're trying to look for the perfect load you'll go crazy. I look at it as eliminating crap that doesn't work.
The worst is a bullet the rifle doesn't like.
(Never fall in love with a new shiny bullet)
The next worse is a powder that doesnt match.
(The rifle, barrel length, bullet and it's weight)
You find that out before you get done with charge determination.

I'm assuming you'll start with a seating depth that's been successful before. For me, I can seat a tangent ogive bullet wherever I want to, but closer is a little better. Secant ogives for me I start at 0.040 jump. I've not had success jamming them.

I wouldn't dream of telling you what to do, because even with some experience I don't know what's going to happen.

But I'm betting if you take H 4350, and a bullet that matches the rifle and the powder... You won't be able to make it fail. What I do is try to make loads fail. If I'm doing everything right and a load won't shoot, I'm done with it. I'll try a two shot group. Dang if it's 1.75 it'll never get better. But if it's 0.38 then I'll shoot another one. Then I'll sit back down and drill two more through the same hole. Then I'll start cold and shoot 10. By that time I loosely know something about SD. (ES is critical in powder charge determination. It never shrinks with more shots)

After I have tried vigorously to make a load fail, hot, cold and everything... I have absolute confidence in what I'm shooting.

You don't need to validate two powders until one of them doesn't work the way you want it to. But keep your mind open and be willing to ditch a bullet that won't shoot too.

The bullet industry KNOWS this. That's why hybrid bullets are a thing. Because extra long slippery secant ogive bullets can be very finicky. Others are the virtual gold standard for easy to tune.

Have fun. Ain't nothing wrong with an ought 6.

 

[BringBackThe80s]

I highly recommend watching the Precision Handloading - What REALLY Matters? video series on Little Crow Gunworks's YouTube channel. Playlist link here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoeioEp8focRcyTvAqt5m_-9shU0xcH44&si=BZxzBqjFwM10-myX

It is the most thorough step-by-step presentation out there on handloading for accuracy. I think Adam does a really good job of prioritizing what things matter the most, versus things that might also improve accuracy, versus minutia that only matter if you're already consistently shooting 1/3 MOA groups. He discusses some important principals had identified on my own and I've not heard, seen, or read elsewhere.

It would be best to watch all 17 episodes in order. But if you feel like you need to jump straight to the question you/OP (BillingsKeith) raised, then the following episodes focus on powder selection, screening, and systematic load workup:

• Part 4: Powder Selection;
• Part 5: Use Optimal Powders;
• Part 12: Pick "The Best" Powder for Your Application;
• Parts 13 - 16: (load workup once powder is selected)

IMO (unless you handload at the same location as your 100yd or longer shooting range), you will save yourself quite a bit of time and components if you plan to workup your loads systematically with steps designed to eliminate inconsistent components, charge weights, and seating depths, rather than jumping straight loads that others say have shot well for them. (You can find at least one thread here on Rokslide where I did take somebody's suggested load, loaded up a batch, and had a winner--but that was only because I had previously shot all the components enough to have a logbook of data where I could check the recommendation, confirm I had already checked for excess pressure at the recommend levels, and could plug all the "recipe" variables into GRT and confirm it looked safe and likely to shoot at least okay.) I suggest planning for at least the following stages of assembling loads and then going to the range to shoot each set before moving on the the next stage:

1. 1st Prep/Range Trip -- at least 10 shots per powder: Identify one and (only one) bullet you are going to hunt with, then identify the powders that best fit the parameters of your cartridge and barrel with that bullet, then load/shoot a pressure screening ladder for each of those powders with that bullet (See Parts 1, 4-6, and 12). During this test, do not vary any components or variables except the powder and powder-specific charge weights used for each group.
2. 2nd Prep/Range Trip -- 30 shots: Using the results of that first range trip, examine each of the 10+shot groups you now have for each of the potential powders. Identify which of those potential powders was most consistent each powder's range of charge weights. Put aside all the other powders for now. Now load and shoot a round-robin OCW test at intervals of (in the 30-06) at least 0.2 grains and not more than 0.4 grains, shooting 3 shots per charge weight. Make sure your intervals span a range from your max charge to at least 2 grains below max. Shoot all three shots in each group even if the first two shots make "too large" a group--you're not yet trying to pick the smallest group size, but identify a series of charge weights where the average POI for each group stays close together for a sequence of at least 2, but hopefully 3 or 4 charge weights. At this stage, do not change any component or variable whatsoever from what you used the in Stage 1 (except for the weight of powder used in each group/interval; everything else should be the same as what you used in Stage 1). (See Parts 12-13.)
3. Third Prep/Range Trip - First Option / 30 shots: Use the results of that second range trip to identify a charge weight in where the groups on either side of it have the same (or closest) average POI. If the groups around and near that charge weight are not as small as you are looking for, then you can use your selected charge weight to load and shoot a 30-shot/10-interval seating depth test. At this stage, do not change any components or variables at all (except for the seating depth used for each group/interval; everything else should be the same as what you used in Stage 2). (See Parts 14-15.)
4. Third or Fourth Prep/Range Trip -- 20 shots: If the groups near that charge weight are already as small as you are looking for (or you have finished the seating depth test), then are ready to load at least 20 rounds at your chose charge weight and seating depot, then shoot a 20+ shot group (or if the bullets are stacking on top of each other, shoot 2 groups of 10 shots or 4 groups of 5 shots, then aggregate all 10 shots as one composite group). That will let you know if your recipe is going to be good enough even when you account for "outliers", and you can use that composite group to zero your scope. At this stage, do not change any components or variables at all--every cartridge should have the same components, same specs, the one charge weight identified in Stage 2, and the one seating depth identified in Stage 4) (See Parts 15-16.)

If there are multiple powders you think are good candidates shoot a 10+ shot pressure screen for each of those powders at Stage 1. If you only screen one powder at State 1, then do Stages 2-4 to develop that powder, you will be expending 50 to 80 shots to develop that one powder without knowing if that powder *on target* is the most promising and easy to work up. Then you have to go back and shoot another 60-90 shots to work up another powder and find out if it is a better option. Shoot the extra 10 to 40 shots at Stage 1 so you know that, during Stages 2-4, you are working with best powder for that bullet in your rifle. If you try and avoid an extra 10 or 30 shots at Stage 1, you are likely to waste 50-80 shots and LOT of time using an inferior powder in Stages 2-4. (The same principal applies to doing the entire systematic test at each of Stages 2-4.) So you definitely need at least 100 of your chosen bullet before you start; 150 would be better. (If you clean your barrel between range sessions, then you also need to add 3-5 fouling shots at the beginning of each stage (so an additional 9-20 bullets).

Some high-performance cartridges (such as 7 PRC, 22 Creedmoor, maybe 22-250, many Weatherbys, etc.) may have a barrel life of only 1200 or even 750 shots, so it may be important to streamline so that load development can be accomplished in 60 or 75 shots. But a 30-06 has ample barrel life for a systematic approach that will save you headaches, repeated stages, and second-guessing afterward.

Have fun and enjoy the loading and shooting!

 

[BringBackThe80s]

Curious question as I’ve never heard this-

How do you fix SD? What else will that affect?


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We're going to assume you have picked a good/decent bullet and identified which of the appropriate powders your rifle + bullet likes the best, then identified the most POI-stable area within the range of safe charge weights and picked a decent seating depth (though you can have great SDs with a charge weight or seating depth does not group well). From there, reducing SDs means being as consistent as possible with each of the components/variables. Some will have a bigger effect than others, so in order of priority, get more and more consistent with:

1. Seating depth;
2. Charge weight consistency;
3. Consistent primer brand/type;
4. Other factors that impact chamber pressure (powder humidity levels; uniform case brand, barrel/chamber/ammo temp swings, etc.);
5. Brass quality and prep consistency;
6. Primer consistency; etc.; etc.

If you conquer all items up through #5, the factors after that are going to be fairly inconsequential unless you are competing or shooting significantly long distances.