Best option for climbing

[loganwayne]

i use sticks with cam buckles. i used daisy chains and had a stick kick out on me and i figured the small amount of weight savings wasnt worth it to me. i havent had a stick kick out again since i switched back and started pushing down hard to set the stick before i climbed up on it.

 

[Macintosh]

Look, I really dont give a hoot how anyone climbs a tree, but I have to disagree with people characterizing the relative safety of some of the climbing methods, and recommending some things that probably arent appropriate for many people without some practice and probably some instruction. be careful not to ignore the inherent risk that comes from complication. sticks are SIMPLE. Strap it on, set it hard, and if it sets, its pretty darn secure. Simplicity IS safety. And this is coming from someone who was a climbing guide for 20 years and worked in the climbing industry teaching guides and developing technical equipment. I get a little frustrated with this topic because people are extremely concerned with safety, and yet—often in the same breath—in the name of shedding a couple pounds, they use and recommend systems that are extremely technical, not intuitive and very difficult for many people to learn. I’ll fall back on my earlier advice—watch some youtube videos of how to set up and do each climbing method, and objectively ask yourself how well you will be able to do that (tie all the knots, set everything up, etc) in the dark, in freezing weather, after not a ton of practice, and choose your method from there. After you've used it for a season or three, IF you see any reason to change, that’s the time to address your specific needs with a different way up the tree. If knots and ropework comes easy for you, great. Ive seen enough people who cant tie their own shoelaces reliably when they are cold or a little disoriented that I have a hard time suggesting anyone use any of the fringe climbing methods as their first mobile setup or without trying it first.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Can you share or explain a stick climbing method where the climber is in a fully captured condition the entire time during initial ascent? Genuinely curious, as I haven't seen one.

 

[fwafwow]

Look, I really dont give a hoot how anyone climbs a tree, but I have to disagree with people characterizing the relative safety of some of the climbing methods, and recommending some things that probably arent appropriate for many people without some practice and probably some instruction. be careful not to ignore the inherent risk that comes from complication. sticks are SIMPLE. Strap it on, set it hard, and if it sets, its pretty darn secure. Simplicity IS safety. And this is coming from someone who was a climbing guide for 20 years and worked in the climbing industry teaching guides and developing technical equipment. I get a little frustrated with this topic because people are extremely concerned with safety, and yet—often in the same breath—in the name of shedding a couple pounds, they use and recommend systems that are extremely technical, not intuitive and very difficult for many people to learn. I’ll fall back on my earlier advice—watch some youtube videos of how to set up and do each climbing method, and objectively ask yourself how well you will be able to do that (tie all the knots, set everything up, etc) in the dark, in freezing weather, after not a ton of practice, and choose your method from there. After you've used it for a season or three, IF you see any reason to change, that’s the time to address your specific needs with a different way up the tree. If knots and ropework comes easy for you, great. Ive seen enough people who cant tie their own shoelaces reliably when they are cold or a little disoriented that I have a hard time suggesting anyone use any of the fringe climbing methods as their first mobile setup or without trying it first.

I welcome your advice as someone with experience. FWIW the JRB method doesn’t require tying knots in the dark or at the tree. I don’t know if any of your comments are directed at me, but I’m not underestimating the complexity, doing anything due to weight or recommending anything to anyone.

 

[LostArra]

the stick based climbing options range from risky to insane. most stick designs seem optimized to lacerate the arteries in your thighs.

I wouldn't be surprised if screw-in steps gave rise to the original gut hook knife blade.

 

[Macintosh]

A linemans belt is a simple, easy way to keep both hands free while preventing a fall longer than a foot or so, and it works from the ground up to as high as you want to climb. It’s probably not what was meant by “fully captured” but its a simple, easy to rig and use system that is proven effective. Perfect? No. It is conceivable to get hurt even in the short sliding fall that could happen in a linemans belt. But to characterize it as anything other than intuitive, simple, reliable and effective is ignoring the reality of just how many people have been successfully relying on this system for many decades, not just in treestands but other work at height as well. That comes without having to throw ropes over branches in the dark or use pre-rigged haul strings, without the uncertainty of whether an untested branch (in the dark) is strong enough to bounce on for the next 10 minutes, without needing a solid branch x-feet off the ground in the first place, without ropes pinched in the crotch of a tree unable to be pulled up or down, without the energy required to hold yourself upright while ascending the rope, without doing 20 reps of what most people consider strenuous excercise, etc. If those methods work better for you, thats great—more power to you. I found it significantly more hassle than it was worth, and after using several of these for a couple years switched back to sticks. The point is not to bash one method or the other, I am fully aware some people use and prefer those climbing methods. The point is that the op, and often the people asking in other cases, is brand new to mobile setup in general, likely doesnt have any history with rope work, and most importantly they already have easily-available commercial options with a strong safety record, at a variety of price points, that they can probably even try out and get firsthand instruction on locally. the fact is that the “normal” methods, despite a vocal minority of people touting these other systems, are pretty darn refined, easy and efficient to use, quite safe and quite good, and in some cases pretty darn light weight too. The alternatives, all gajillion varieties of them, while they may address minor quibbles with other ways up a tree are unquestionably more complicated to set up and use, which to me is the biggest risk factor for most people. Someone may be able to rig a jrb or drt or srt or single stick or whatever system at home and drag it into a tree, but can they re-rig it in the field and be confident it’s done right if something as simple as a friction knot accidentally coming off the rope happens? As I said earlier, if you watch some of the videos and it makes sense to you, GREAT—those folks will hopefully practice it enough to avoid getting hurt. My experience, and the reason I went on this tirade, is the folks Ive helped with their setup in person have universally come wanting help to learn one of these other methods—so far single stick, jrb and drt—all have found the complication of any climbing method to be the biggest obstacle to safety by far, much more so than the nuance of whether this system is slightly more redundant than that other system. Which is why I have recommended to watch the multitude of videos showcasing in excruciating detail exactly how to perform each method and try to objectively decide for themselves what makes the most sense for their goals, level of skill, amount of time they want to fiddle with and practice, etc. I feel very strongly that if you are worried about safety and you want to be able to hunt from a treestand in as portable way as you can, that simplicity—ie whichever system is simpler and easier for you to intuitively, correctly and safely rig in field conditions—is safer and will end up being more efficient and more fun than a more-complicated system that on paper might be slightly more redundant or slightly lighter weight. Thats all, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[fwafwow]

A linemans belt is a simple, easy way to keep both hands free while preventing a fall longer than a foot or so, and it works from the ground up to as high as you want to climb.

My understanding is that the LB is a fall prevention device, not a fall arrest device, and that you can still fall significantly farther than a foot or so.

It’s probably not what was meant by “fully captured” but its a simple, easy to rig and use system that is proven effective. Perfect? No. It is conceivable to get hurt even in the short sliding fall that could happen in a linemans belt. But to characterize it as anything other than intuitive, simple, reliable and effective is ignoring the reality of just how many people have been successfully relying on this system for many decades, not just in treestands but other work at height as well.

Serious question - what profession (arborists?) rely on a LB without being tied in with some other form of contact? I’m not suggesting not to use a LB if you climb with sticks, but that you should also use at least a tether as you climb.

That comes without having to throw ropes over branches in the dark or use pre-rigged haul strings, without the uncertainty of whether an untested branch (in the dark) is strong enough to bounce on for the next 10 minutes, without needing a solid branch x-feet off the ground in the first place, without ropes pinched in the crotch of a tree unable to be pulled up or down, without the energy required to hold yourself upright while ascending the rope, without doing 20 reps of what most people consider strenuous excercise, etc.

I think “in the dark” aspect can be controlled by scouting and placing lines in the tree during daylight to mitigate these outcomes. If someone doesn’t want to do that, that’s fine - but that (or the possibility of a throw line getting stuck in a crotch) are just inconveniences - not safety related.

If those methods work better for you, thats great—more power to you. I found it significantly more hassle than it was worth, and after using several of these for a couple years switched back to sticks. The point is not to bash one method or the other, I am fully aware some people use and prefer those climbing methods. The point is that the op, and often the people asking in other cases, is brand new to mobile setup in general, likely doesnt have any history with rope work, and most importantly they already have easily-available commercial options with a strong safety record, at a variety of price points, that they can probably even try out and get firsthand instruction on locally.

Instruction is a good suggestion - for any method of climbing. Is that something generally available? I do think it would be good for me and my rope climbing learning.

the fact is that the “normal” methods, despite a vocal minority of people touting these other systems, are pretty darn refined, easy and efficient to use, quite safe and quite good, and in some cases pretty darn light weight too. The alternatives, all gajillion varieties of them, while they may address minor quibbles with other ways up a tree are unquestionably more complicated to set up and use, which to me is the biggest risk factor for most people. Someone may be able to rig a jrb or drt or srt or single stick or whatever system at home and drag it into a tree, but can they re-rig it in the field

My understanding of the JRB method is that there is minimal re-rigging required at the tree.

and be confident it’s done right if something as simple as a friction knot accidentally coming off the rope happens?

I think the same could be said of the ways by which sticks are applied to trees, right?

As I said earlier, if you watch some of the videos and it makes sense to you, GREAT—those folks will hopefully practice it enough to avoid getting hurt. My experience, and the reason I went on this tirade, is the folks Ive helped with their setup in person have universally come wanting help to learn one of these other methods—so far single stick, jrb and drt—all have found the complication of any climbing method to be the biggest obstacle to safety by far, much more so than the nuance of whether this system is slightly more redundant than that other system. Which is why I have recommended to watch the multitude of videos showcasing in excruciating detail exactly how to perform each method and try to objectively decide for themselves what makes the most sense for their goals, level of skill, amount of time they want to fiddle with and practice, etc. I feel very strongly that if you are worried about safety and you want to be able to hunt from a treestand in as portable way as you can, that simplicity—ie whichever system is simpler and easier for you to intuitively, correctly and safely rig in field conditions—is safer and will end up being more efficient and more fun than a more-complicated system that on paper might be slightly more redundant or slightly lighter weight. Thats all, nothing more, nothing less.

What about this - using a rope climbing method *and* sticks?

 

[Devin1214]

Sticks with aiders for sure, a lot more versatile and don’t limit you to certain trees. I use two cut down hawks with 3 step aiders, light and gets me plenty high enough.

 

[WCB]

To the OP...just get a set of 4 climbing sticks and be done with it. You could easily get away with 3 for most situations and add 2 or 3 screw in steps at the bottom instead of a stick. I guess I hunt different than a lot of guys on here but ascending with a rope up and perfectly manicured tree is restrictive on set up options like a climbing stand....webbing or rope climbing aiders? yeah look like a lot of fun late season in the dark with bigger boots on and wind blowing (been there done that)....maybe these things have there place but if I was planning for covering almost every situation ascending up a rope is at the bottom of the list.

My recommendation on climbing sticks is get ones that there is a step on either side. I have Lone Wolfs with the single step you pivot to one side or the other....they work but nice to be able to not have to be side specific.

I also prefer cam locks vs just tying a knot. But both will work. As stated before I have a set of LW but also have a set of Shikar sticks which are insanly light and become very compact. Not a huge fan of how easy the Shikars tree brace pivots even if you tighten down the front knob.

I have an old pair of Gorilla steps stable with nice big steps but heavy. I also have 3 sets of Muddy Stagger Steps. heavy compared to the light weight sticks but absolutely rock solid on trees once set and 3 nice big steps that sit away from the tree...honestly like climbing a ladder...and inexpensive. I use these for sets I plan to have out for a while and late season sets.

 

[loganwayne]

My understanding is that the LB is a fall prevention device, not a fall arrest device, and that you can still fall significantly farther than a foot or so.

Serious question - what profession (arborists?) rely on a LB without being tied in with some other form of contact? I’m not suggesting not to use a LB if you climb with sticks, but that you should also use at least a tether as you climb.

Ive fallen using a line mans belt. i fell about 3ft before it grabbed. i was almost parallel with the line when i fell it it was at the correct angle it would have grabbed sooner and i would have probably fell less than a ft.

arborist and lineman use lineman belts. i know plenty of lineman and they trust their life's daily on them no reason i shouldn't trust the one im using.


Lets all be honest here. NO METHOD is fail proof. equipment can break or be used incorrectly. I've seen on several pages where people that use rope to climb and come down have had equipment failure. rope can break (not likely but can happen).

Do i use a tether on the tree when using a climber? no i do once i get to a stopped position. im not using a tether and a lineman to climb a tree with sticks, im confident enough in my skills to feel safe doing that. would i single rope or anything like that. HELL NO. but thats my personal opinion.

 

[Macintosh]

To me a linemans belt is both prevention and protection. While I have never truly fallen while using one, I have sat in them without the support of steps many times (sometimes pretty aggressively while demonstrating their use), and have found they reliably stop and hold within a foot or so, maybe a bit more if I've let slack build up as mentioned above, but also remember it's a "slide" as much as a "fall". It's not crazy comfortable, it's likely to leave some embarrassing scrapes, but they've held me reliably and I'm confident mine will prevent a catastrophic injury should I break a strap or a step or something like that, and that small risk is fine for me given the extremely low likelihood of a fall. Im also confident one could concoct a “worst case scenario” where a linemans belt would not provide the level of protection I desired, but having used them literally hundreds (maybe thousands?) of times I'm pretty confident that unless I'm intentionally trying to contrive that situation it has about as much chance of happening as me getting hit by a bus—it could happen, and therefore I look both ways before crossing the street (i.e. diligent attention to managing my linemans belt), and at some point I just have to decide when I've done enough to keep myself safe and put the rest in the hands of God, fate or luck. I dont need or want a backup to my backup, and I think that hypothetical situation is so infinitesimally low-probability that all those factors line up just the wrong way simultaneously, that I simply think it's a waste of my energy to try to anticipate and prevent it from happening. Using a rope AND a LB would be redundant and involve unnecessary complication and hassle--for me at least, it's extra fuss, weight, etc without adding enough additional safety to matter. I also feel the additional complication and fiddle-factor involved with doubling and tripling overlapping safety precautions creates the potential for as many safety problems as it alleviates, to say nothing of adding enough weight to your pack to in some cases subvert the whole point of a mobile setup in the first place. YMMV, and I often carry two headlamps for a reason.

Yes, you can always set up after daylight, or you could only set up in trees that you have pre-prepped with a cord to pull up a rope, or even a pre-rigged safety line, but that significantly limits when and where I can hunt and simply does not work for me, and frankly I don't like the idea of littering the woods with pieces of paracord that I may or may not come back to retrieve. Same with using both a rope and sticks—a rope is SOP for a fixed stand, but throwing the safety rope before climbing a set of sticks is limiting to me in the same way a climbing stand is (gotta have that particular branch...), plus adds complication , bulk, weight, noise/commotion and hassle, without adding enough additional safety compared to a linemans belt that I see a point. If you or someone is more confident doing that, by all means do it where you can. The whole point of having a mobile setup for me is so I can hunt new areas, look for sign and set up on it “in the moment”, ie totally un-prepped and as much as possible unencumbered, with as much flexibility as possible to set up exactly where I want regardless of what tree happens to be there. It is never going to be as clear-cut as any fixed stand since every tree and setup will be different in ways that you cannot always anticipate--you have to have some basic tools and know how to flexibly use them in a way that is safe-enough for you, in a variety of different situations. If you are setting a couple stands or prepping trees ahead of time, absolutely use a safety rope and whatever tools are available to add safety and efficiency...that's just not the situation I'm talking about.

Most people I know can recognize a buckled and tightened cam-buckle, but very few recognize the difference between a properly tied prussik or klemheist knot versus one that's going to slip, or replace or readjust one after it falls off after a moment of inattention, or tie and adjust a harness so ascending is least strenuous, etc--I believe this is a big part of why the mechanical rope-grabs are so popular for a tether. Climbing with sticks is literally as simple as strapping the stick around the tree using a cam buckle. Slip the loop over the button, tighten the buckle, set the stick by forcibly jerking it down, stand on it. Clip linemans belt to the loop on your harness on one side, pass around tree, clip to other side, snug it up so you can comfortably lean back on it without leaning far. lean back, set next stick, stand up on it. Move your linemans belt up with you as you climb. lean back, set next stick. repeat, add oregano, serve. If you pull up the second stick using the strap, and hang the other 2 sticks off each side of your harness, there is no need to go up/down/up, you can be almost totally silent, and be up a normal tree and hunting in well under 10 minutes without needing to practice excessively or work up a sweat. When done, reverse the exact same process. Even my amsteel daisies, while some people dont like them because they dont tighten as securely, dont even involve a buckle at all--if the loop is over the button, it's on...with the caveat that it needs to be diligently set to be secure, I'm not sure what could be simpler.

From reading the posts I cant tell who has used sticks or JRB or both in the past, and how much--but for anyone still reading who hasnt used both extensively I would encourage you to find a friend locally and swap gear to try this stuff out together--prepping a couple trees in the off season on a hot day in july is a great way to do this--and with the benefit of someone who's practiced to show you their method, see which ways are easier for you to climb without breaking a sweat, which are quieter, which are faster without rushing, which are easier to tell if they somehow got effed up in your truck or pack, the degree to which each protects from a fall, and make your own decisions.

Again, if anyone feels they are more comfortable with any other method, or have a specific reason they want to move away from sticks (especially if it's borne from personal experience), or they just want to do something different, GREAT; just don't fool yourself into thinking there are huge, glaring inherent problems with using sticks and a linemans belt to get up a tree and manage your safety in a mobile tree stand setup--there arent. They may not be perfect, and there are many types of them as people have tried to keep making them better, easier, lighter, etc, but there's a reason that 1) sticks + hang-on or saddle or 2) a climbing stand are the standard setups for mobile stand hunting that all other methods are measured against.

edit: also, not clear if the OP is looking to have a mobile setup or just pre-rig a couple stands. If pre-rigged I would use cheaper sticks/ or a strap-on ladder and a linemans belt to hang it, and leave a fixed tether that reaches almost to the ground for future when you climb it to hunt. If you are in the typical plains stream-bottom cottonwood like I'm familiar with its likely there arent many accessible branches you would hang a rope from anyway. You can leave the top couple sticks in place and just cart the bottom stick in with you if you are worried about people messing with your fixed stand.