Berger Long Range Hybrid Target Terminal performance

[SDHNTR]

Effective? Generally. The same- no. It would be akin to saying a ELD-X and a Barnes TTSX are the same. Both plastic tipped and both kill, but both behave quite differently.

Differently on the theoretical level, sure, but effectively different? Not in my experience. Would love to know what you’ve seen that is so different.

 

[Formidilosus]

Differently on the theoretical level, sure, but effectively different? Not in my experience. Would love to know what you’ve seen that is so different.

Which? Between VLD and Target Bergers?

 

[bmart2622]

Differently on the theoretical level, sure, but effectively different? Not in my experience. Would love to know what you’ve seen that is so different.

Certainly you dont mean between a Berger and a TTSX?!?!?

 

[SDHNTR]

Which? Between VLD and Target Bergers?

Yeah, or say between VLDH and Hybrid Targets. You’ve seen a meaningful difference in tissue destruction?

 

[sierracharlie338]

Locked and loaded with some 135 LRHTs for in the morning. Will report back.

 

[Formidilosus]

Yeah, or say between VLDH and Hybrid Targets. You’ve seen a meaningful difference in tissue destruction?

Yes. Thin jacket VLD’s typically penetrate 3-5” then fragment near totally. With lots or most caliber/weights- exits are relatively rare in larger see and elk. Think 15-16” penetration with a 8” wide wound channel with extreme cavitation in the chest.
Most target versions will penetrate 4-8” before yawing or upsetting, and they will generally exit. Think 3’ish inch wide wound channel.

They also generally have different impact velocity requirements- 1,800 to 1,900fps impact with VLD-H, and 2,050’ish for Target/tacitical/OTM’s. That’s in general, there are exceptions however.

 

[SDHNTR]

Interesting. I’ve seen two elk laying side by side, one shot with a 215 target and one shot with 210vldh. Both at similar ranges, 400 ish and with similar guns, .300 wm and prc, and in pretty much the same spot. The damage looked about the same. People seem to use them without much distinction too. As if shooting Bergers were all the same. I don’t think many people knowingly shoot the target version for greater penetration or the hunting version for greater expansion.

 

[sierracharlie338]

Berger 135lrht out of a 25creed, 2800 range was about 100yards. Bang flop.
Entrance


Exit


Exit skin removed


That’s about a 1.5-2 inch hole through the middle of the shoulder.

 

[Formidilosus]

Interesting. I’ve seen two elk laying side by side, one shot with a 215 target and one shot with 210vldh. Both at similar ranges, 400 ish and with similar guns, .300 wm and prc, and in pretty much the same spot. The damage looked about the same. People seem to use them without much distinction too. As if shooting Bergers were all the same. I don’t think many people knowingly shoot the target version for greater penetration or the hunting version for greater expansion.

Sure there are lots of crossover between them, but it’s around the edges where differences start to show up.
Lots of people use lots of things without an understanding of how any of it actually works, but it doesn’t mean there aren’t differences. Mostly because animals are meat and tend to die when perforated, and very few people kill enough animals in enough scenarios to see any trends, or have enough of an analytical mind to look for differences. If course, the vast majority shoot animals without any “need” to understand it.

 

[SDHNTR]

Sure there are lots of crossover between them, but it’s around the edges where differences start to show up.
Lots of people use lots of things without an understanding of how any of it actually works, but it doesn’t mean there aren’t differences. Mostly because animals are meat and tend to die when perforated, and very few people kill enough animals in enough scenarios to see any trends, or have enough of an analytical mind to look for differences. If course, the vast majority shoot animals without any “need” to understand it.

Agreed. And by no means was I insinuating that my very limited experience with Bergers meant much. I’m a mono guy, not necessarily by choice, but only because I’m too lazy to switch loads when I go out of state. I could bore you to death with hundreds of stories and examples of mono bullet nuances.

 

[rifletuner]

Just ordered a 22 cal cutter for the nose ring tool. Will see how the 85.5 LRHT does with it.

I will be very interested to hear how that goes for you. Have you used nose ringed Bergers in other calibres?

 

[ZWA]

I have not. Going to try the 85.5 LRHT and the 185 Jugg.

 

[Formidilosus]

Agreed. And by no means was I insinuating that my very limited experience with Bergers meant much. I’m a mono guy, not necessarily by choice, but only because I’m too lazy to switch loads when I go out of state. I could bore you to death with hundreds of stories and examples of mono bullet nuances.

Oh yes sir- I was just commenting overall. There certainly is quite a bit of crossover performance between the various models.

 

[Hondo64d]

Have read through most of the other LRHT on game threads. Reviving this for the upcoming 2024 season. Anyone taking LRHT's to the field?

I have shot some critters, pigs, whitetail, and coyotes, with the 85.5gr hybrid, the 130gr AR Hybrid, the 130gr HVLD, 155gr HVLDs and the 185gr Classic Hunter. The only one I’ve had inconsistent results from is the 130gr AR Hybrid. With those, results have varied from DRT to one lost animal. With the others, everything was mostly DRT, with a couple of short runs. The sample size is probably insignificant, but I’m still not using the AR Hybrids on critters any more.

If the hybrids shoot well for you, you might give the classic hunters or the extreme hunter a try. They are pretty much a hybrid, but with a thinner jacket.

John

 

[rifletuner]

I have not. Going to try the 85.5 LRHT and the 185 Jugg.

Well, looking forward to the results. In my head at least, nose rings on the Bergers seems like it would work well.

 

[eoperator]

Just ordered a 22 cal cutter for the nose ring tool. Will see how the 85.5 LRHT does with it.

I have shot 108eh-109lrht-153lrht-150smk-183smk nose ringed bullets into gel. From what I saw the nr cut bullets had ~30% shorter neck length and a ~couple ish inches more penetration. It definitely has positive results but is it worth it when tipped bullets are available that are known to have good performance? Maybe

109lrht & 150smk both penciled 1/2 of the time with reduced charge weight low velocity loads. Both 109&150 have lead nearly to the tip maybe providing more support? Not sure about the 85.5 but the 80.5gberger has a good size air gap in the tip.

This is nothing but my own opinion but to me the ~.002" difference in jacket thickness between vld-vldh-lrht-eh is not enough to cause noticeable results on game. I think it has more to do with jacket and lead composition and manufacturing techniques.

 

[Goosepilot]

6cm and 105 hyb at 3121 fps coyotes 40-520 usually 1-2" exit. Headshots have all been 200-500 and they have not exited, but skull is mush on inside. Only 1 antelope at 200ish, similar exit. I mule deer buck at 425.

7mm blaser and 195 eol at 2890. Antelope at 160, several white-tailed and mule deer bucks from 220-425, 1st bull elk at 600 dropped immediately, 2nd bull at 100 Intentionally through front shoulders and found bullet on off side shoulder and he staggered a few seconds and fell over.

Very pleased with performance. I believe all have been 1 shot except for first mule deer. I havnt lost 30lbs of meat combined.

 

[Conrad]

6cm and 105 hyb at 3121 fps coyotes 40-520 usually 1-2" exit. Headshots have all been 200-500 and they have not exited, but skull is mush on inside. Only 1 antelope at 200ish, similar exit. I mule deer buck at 425.

7mm blaser and 195 eol at 2890. Antelope at 160, several white-tailed and mule deer bucks from 220-425, 1st bull elk at 600 dropped immediately, 2nd bull at 100 Intentionally through front shoulders and found bullet on off side shoulder and he staggered a few seconds and fell over.

Very pleased with performance. I believe all have been 1 shot except for first mule deer. I havnt lost 30lbs of meat combined.

Good info, but this thread is specifically about the LRHT's--with the closed/pointed tips.