Beginner Caliber and Rifle

[Formidilosus]

In your (or anyone else's) experience, is there a noticeable recoil difference between 22CM and 223?

Yes. As far as “recoil”, and I don’t only mean how it “feels”, there is a measurable effect on everyones shooting ability as recoil goes up. I am just as concerned with the ability to spot one’s own shots on target as I am their ability to press the trigger without a seizure.

Recoil effects fall somewhere about like this:

223- With decent, yet relatively little practice (100-200 rounds) in correct body position, most/all can spot near 100% of their own hits/misses from almost any position. (Almost no person shows recoil effects here).

22CM- With good body position, and a decent amount of practice (a few hundred rounds for the hardest positions) most people can spot almost of their own hits/misses from most positions. (This is also the recoil level where you start seeing some recoil effects in some people- I.E., woman/children).

6cm- With focused work on good body positions and a solid amount of practice (several hundred rounds minimum), most adults will be able to spot most of their own shots from prone, but other positions will be more challenging. (This is the upper end of recoil for excellent field shooting for most people- even adult males).

6.5cm- With very body position and fundamentals; focused work, and a moderate amount of practice (500’ish plus) most adults will be able to slot most of their prone shots, and some of their sitting/kneeling sometimes. It takes very good fundamentals and on demand shooting ability to spot most/all shots/misses from all positions. (This is the recoil level where a noticeable and measurable decrease in shooting ability across the board starts to show itself for nearly everyone).




Take all that, and if you are suppressed, it drops by about one recoil level- that is, a suppressed 6.5cm is about like a unsuppressed 6cm, etc.

 

[codybrown]

7-08 is a greatly underrated caliber. You're already shooting a 7mm, nothing wrong with a tamed down version for a new shooter to become comfortable with.

 

[packgoatguy]

Yes. As far as “recoil”, and I don’t only mean how it “feels”, there is a measurable effect on everyones shooting ability as recoil goes up. I am just as concerned with the ability to spot one’s own shots on target as I am their ability to press the trigger without a seizure.

Recoil effects fall somewhere about like this:

223- With decent, yet relatively little practice (100-200 rounds) in correct body position, most/all can spot near 100% of their own hits/misses from almost any position. (Almost no person shows recoil effects here).

22CM- With good body position, and a decent amount of practice (a few hundred rounds for the hardest positions) most people can spot almost of their own hits/misses from most positions. (This is also the recoil level where you start seeing some recoil effects in some people- I.E., woman/children).

6cm- With focused work on good body positions and a solid amount of practice (several hundred rounds minimum), most adults will be able to spot most of their own shots from prone, but other positions will be more challenging. (This is the upper end of recoil for excellent field shooting for most people- even adult males).

6.5cm- With very body position and fundamentals; focused work, and a moderate amount of practice (500’ish plus) most adults will be able to slot most of their prone shots, and some of their sitting/kneeling sometimes. It takes very good fundamentals and on demand shooting ability to spot most/all shots/misses from all positions. (This is the recoil level where a noticeable and measurable decrease in shooting ability across the board starts to show itself for nearly everyone).




Take all that, and if you are suppressed, it drops by about one recoil level- that is, a suppressed 6.5cm is about like a unsuppressed 6cm, etc.

In regards to your mention of suppressor use on the 223/22cm; when using a quality 30 cal suppresor, how "loud" is a 22cm (subjectively or decibles) in a short/16 inch barreled rifle vs how loud a 223 would be with the same can, or a 6.5cm with the same can?

 

[Macro]

223 REM will work. Don't count it out. Pick the right ammo, and it will take a deer as well as anything else.
243 WIN take a lot of deer. A lot of fathers pick that for their kids' Yute Rifles.
Personally, I like 308 WIN and 30-06 for whitetail, but I'm also 6'4"/300 lbs. My kids all started with 30-30 WIN and then graduated to 30-06 when they could shoulder an adult-sized rifle, but they were walking landforms like me even as kids.
7mm/08 is very close to 308 WIN, but has much less recoil. If she can handle the recoil, that would be my first choice.

 

[Chili_Goose]

I completely agree with everyone on the 243. It has very little recoil and can has a wide variety of ammuniton available no matter where a person shops. It is what I would consider one of the most versatile, tried and true gun calibers ever. I have many calibers, new and old, and the 243 is still one I shoot the most.

 

[General RE LEE]

I wish more rifles were offered in 6mm Creedmoor.

 

[Dejhavu]

223 REM will work. Don't count it out. Pick the right ammo, and it will take a deer as well as anything else.
243 WIN take a lot of deer. A lot of fathers pick that for their kids' Yute Rifles.
Personally, I like 308 WIN and 30-06 for whitetail, but I'm also 6'4"/300 lbs. My kids all started with 30-30 WIN and then graduated to 30-06 when they could shoulder an adult-sized rifle, but they were walking landforms like me even as kids.
7mm/08 is very close to 308 WIN, but has much less recoil. If she can handle the recoil, that would be my first choice.

 

[Roguemountainhunter]

Plus 1 for the 7mm-08!

 

[miller3483]

I went down this road with my daughter. Bought a tikka 7mm-08 and Hornady reduced recoil loads. She did ok, didn’t love it though. I got scared that I was gonna induce a lifetime of bad shooting habits, so I got a tikka in 223, it’s night and day difference. She shoots it way better, really happy I read all those @Formidilosus posts.

 

[BryanL]

Tikka .223 is great. My 5 year old can shoot it and hits the 200 yd gong on a regular basis. Granted that’s from a bench, but he loves it! I was convinced based on the “.223 for everything” thread and a previously thought that a .223 bolt gun would make a great training rifle. Seeing it is that plus a capable hunting rifle sealed the deal. Next step up for my kiddo will be 6.5cm due to availability. If you handload, you can do some reduced loads to start them on as well.

 

[rabbithuntr]

Me and my siblings all started with a 223 or 22-250. I don’t believe we ever had a deer go more than 80 yds after the shot. My sister dropped her first 3 or 4 with a 60 gr. Hornady in a 22-250. I do think that a heavy tipped match bullet would be ideal in a 22 cal. As adults my family hunts deer with 243s and 6.5 Creedmoors


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[Robobiss]

If you’re talking about handing a gun to an inexperienced kid, why start them out in something that kicks more? As a kid, I started out on a 243 in a Remington 600 with an 18” barrel. That gun would throw a 24” hoop of fire out the muzzle, and it gave me a flinch that took a long time to overcome. I would rather teach a kid fundamentals behind a soft shooter with a suppressor. Take as much of the noise and recoil out of the equation as you can.

I agree with you here. My first rifle I got when I was 9 was a REM. Model 7 with a short barrel (probably never knew how long it was, I was a kid it was 20 years ago) in .243. That thing spanked the shit out of me. Seriously, like it actually hurt my shoulder. For someone that size (and I wasn’t a small kid) a lightweight .243 may as well be a 30-06

I get that Rokslide is more of a western crowd, with most recommendations for cartridges that are much more suited for longer shots, but I’m awfully surprised there are hardly any recommendations for something like a ruger American in 300 BLK.

I know OP is in cali where Suppressors aren’t legal, and SBR’s probably aren’t either, but those little rifles are sweet shooters all things considered. For everyone else-Chop the barrel, throw a can on it, twist up some Barnes 110 Tac-Tx, (SICK performance on deer) and have a party inside 150-200 yards. Most kids don’t have any business shooting beyond that distance anyways. They recoil so light that just about anybody can shoot one. My buddies 7 year old shoots the shit out of 300BLK, and spanks the deer with it ‘till the cows come home.

Ope- just realized I’m replying to a comment that is over a year old. Oh well, already typed it out.

 

[packgoatguy]

Kids will surprise you with what they can do. Takes some pre season practice, dry fires, and time to get used to the heft of a rifle. It also takes patience and common sense during the season. It takes getting them set up right for the shot... good solid rests, no running shots, and a clear understanding that its OK to not take the shot if they don't feel ready or comfortable. It also helps to hand them a rifle that is zeroed correctly to begin with, and dials precisely for the yardage so they don't have to guess at hold-overs. Having tools on hand like good bipods or tripods, range finders, and a phone skope on the spotter to film the shot also makes a big difference. The mentor helping at their side needs to be calm, collected, and not yelling to "shoot shoot shoot" at the first shot opportunity. Ive found for first time hunters, it sometimes takes 4-5 missed opportunities (shots not taken) before they can put it all together. But thats ok. The patience pays off in the end. If my count is correct, between this season and last season, kids between 10 and 16 took 10 deer and 8 elk with my rifles... all one shot kills. Most in the 300 yard plus range, several over 400... with a variety of calibers; 300wm, 308win, 7mm08, 6.5CM. It wasnt always like that, and its taken a lot of years of my own learning curve to get it to that point. I will say though, suppressors have made a huge difference for the kids being able to shoot these rifles well... and in future years the 300wm likely wont leave the safe... the 6.5CM does everything I need it to. Probably going to be some deer taken next year with a 6CM or even 223. Not to say that these kids cant shoot a 7mm08 or a 308win well, cause they can with practice... but a well placed shot with a good bullet from the 6.5 kills just as well.

 

[TheGDog]

Definitely checkout the Howa Superlite in 6.5cm! I bought one for my 16yo this year. The recoil is nice and pleasant! And if you don't "over-scope it" it's crazy light at 4Lbs 7oz (before scope and rings).

Soo eventually getting one for myself!

 

[packgoatguy]

Definitely checkout the Howa Superlite in 6.5cm! I bought one for my 16yo this year. The recoil is nice and pleasant! And if you don't "over-scope it" it's crazy light at 4Lbs 7oz (before scope and rings).

Soo eventually getting one for myself!

Ive been eyeing those howa superlite rifles. I love that they got that package so lite. Did you put that one on a scale to get that 4lbs 7oz, or is that the advertised weight? How does it shoot? Ive got a kimber hunter that is a couple ounces lighter than that, but I had to chop the barrel down to 18 and cut the stock down to do it. I wish howa would offer that superlite in a 223rem option... a factory 223 that weighed under 4.5lbs would be awsome!