Bear spray or pistol?

[zog]

Also, jsb, in case i misled, . . . the instructor was adamant that he is not advocating any certain method of defense. He teaches you to use both to your best effectiveness and to learn yours and the weapons limitations. Then you have better tools to decide and react. The takeaways I listed are my own, now better-informed, takeaways.

 

[Thumpt 168]

I just hope and pray I never have to use either.

 

[kid44]

If I was hunting in grizzly country, (I'm like 50 miles outside the grizzly zone) I would take both.... the 45 and the shotgun.

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Hope the .45 you refer to is more than a .45 ACP.

 

[kid44]

Stay ready with a .44mag and you'll never have to worry about bears.

A .44 in your hand does not ease the worry.

 

[Birdman7]

Will a 9mm or 45 be enough gun for a charging bear or would you need a 10mm?

 

[zog]

Will a 9mm or 45 be enough gun for a charging bear or would you need a 10mm?

The way I ask this question is whether I have a better chance at three GOOD face shots with 9mm than with 10mm. Three 9mm hits is better than one good 10mm hit. That's MY trade off; others will be different. If I thought I was equally good with both then carrying the 10mm would be my obvious choice. Both will penetrate her face and hit her brains. Not sure if her forehead might stop 9mm, but with more shots, something will get through.

You MUST hit her in the brain (face shots) with either caliber to stop her charge. If you hit her anywhere else it will just make her more angry and determined.

We reviewed this question with our charging target as well. I used a 10mm but I am a better draw and three-shot with a 9mm. So the answer FOR ME is 9mm. 10mm is a lot of gun.

This is a lot like the age old "bigger cal vs better placement" question that will never be answered.

 

[bummer7580]

Hope the .45 you refer to is more than a .45 ACP.

I agree that people putting their confidence in a .45 acp may want to rethink that option. I would suspect it has less energy than a 30-30 and I'm not sure I would want to face a charging grizzly from 25 yards with one.

 

[bummer7580]

There used to be an expression about facing a grizzly with a handgun "save the last round for yourself". Lol

 

[packer]

I carry both.

 

[Flatlander81]

I would definitely want both after seeing the aftermath of attacks

 

[K.S.]

Both!

 

[Crowmangler]

I carry spray during guided rifle elk hunts in MT. I like having the option of a non lethal deterrent in case there's a non threatening encounter. No one wants to kill a bear unnecessarily. Besides that your week and $$ for the hunt is basically shot & have to go through the legal BS associated with it.
Worst case I had a 7mm and guide had a 10mm pistol.
If I were alone I'd definitely carry a pistol too.
Had an encounter last year with Griz. Thank goodness it was uneventful but at the time I wished I had a Howitzer.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

Well this will be sure to rile some up, but I carry a Glock 19.

Esse quam videri

 

[Sleorna]

They're plenty of strong opinions on the spray or gun debate so I won't go there. But to provide insight to the question in the original post, I did a little test. I live in Fairbanks, AK and out of curiosity from this post tried to use a can that I left out in -30f for the night. Didn't work very well but did spray about 5ft. One thing to note is that this can was "expired" by about a year which may have influenced this test. Hardly scientific, but maybe helpful and at least based on actual experience. Keep spray close to your body and it shouldn't get that cold. Performance probably has to do with can pressure rather than contents actually freezing, though I don't know for sure. Hope that helps.

 

[Gseith]

I run a test years ago. Sprayed 2 bears. Both bears turned inside out. One bear I sprayed twice. As for the wind thing that's been mentioned, you gonna be moving away from bear anyway. Spray and run. You're going to get a taste no matter what. Better that then mauled.

Problem with pistols as I see it...the bear knows he wanna eat you long before you know it. I know very few hunters that can ACCURATELY get 4-5 shots off in the span of a few seconds to stop a bear. Could use pistol after fact as bear is leaving, but why?
I often wonder how many folks have been charged by GRIZZLY bear. Where I wonder around I know two times where hunters shot a bear in self defense. Both times was with high powered rifle. Both times fish and game had to go track down wounded bears.

I understand the debate and we are all gun loving hunters. Who wants to carry the hippy spray, I get it.

I guide in overly swamped bear country. We find that spray and yelling work awesome. Actually so good that soon as bear hears human voices he is leaving.

I believe most folks underestimate the power, speed, stealth, and most importantly the intelligence of a grizzly bear.

I dont waste weight carrying a pistol. If I was to carry a firearm for grizzly bear protection. It would be a 12 gauge pump shotgun with short barrel.

Pistols are cool but in MOST hands are false security

Pp

 

[MrSunday]

I carry both.

 

[wyodan]

I carry both. Bear spray because I'm responsible, a pistol because I'm an American.

 

[CAElkhunter]

I just pick the slowest guide when I show up to camp and know that I can run faster than him.......

 

[EfRed]

Bear spray on the animal's fur will have no effect: the spray must enter the eyes, nares, or mouth of the animal. Full effect can only be had if the animal is inhaling when sprayed. Bears don't much depend on eyesight. Spray on the ground or on the animal's fur can be an attractant rather than a deterrent. The spray should be practised and proven under likely weather conditions, including cold.

Carry 2 or 3 cans of spray. Sprayed bears sometimes come back and some bears require a full can before leaving the first time. And where there's one bear, there may well be two. If he comes back, you'd better have something to greet him with. Also, peace of mind for the trail home.

A bear in aggressive charge is a different beast than one displaying, bluff charging, or curious. In the last instances, the bear has time to evaluate the scent of spray, time to change his mind, and may be discouraged. In a full-on aggressive charge, the bear will get to you from max effective spray range in well under a second (assuming 30 mph and a 30 ft max effective range). And he is in the grips of an instinctively programmed reflex action. Chances of him changing his mind if you spray him seem small, due to lack of exposure time and to his being in the grips of a pre-programmed action.

Spray is unpleasant. A bullet hurts, damages, shocks and may be effective against a reflex action. A bullet presents a different and more damaging effect than spray on an aggressively attacking bear.

I suggest that bear encounter stats don't discriminate well between an aggressive attack and display, bluff, or curiosity. That may account for the claimed curiously high percentage of success with spray. Remember that display, bluff, or curiosity can turn into an aggressive deadly charge. Spray may discourage that.

Full-on aggressive attacks may result from violating the bear's claimed space, from predatory instinct, or from stumbling onto a bear's food cache. A grizzly bear thus triggered is going to kill you unless you stop it. A black is as dangerous if his attack is predatory. Almost all black bear attacks on people are predatory.

A grizzly sow with cubs may be triggered to attack aggressively if the cubs don't run in the direction away from you; if they climb a nearby tree or come forward, you'll likely have an aggressive charge on hand. Even in the aggressive charge mode, the sow with cubs may not try to kill you, just teach you a lesson. You may just be badly mauled. If the cubs are yearlings and come forward, you may become the object of a lesson in predation, with small survival odds. On the other hand, black bear cubs climbing a nearby tree will likely induce mama to follow suit.

I favor a pistol. In a real aggressive attack, I'll not trust spray. I won't have time to choose if I carry both. A rifle or a shotgun is likely to be removed from your grasp by the bear immediately on contact. A pistol may remain available.

If I am lucky enough to be aware of the bear before he hits me, I'll have a chance with my sidearm.

 

[Supranatural]

As a resident of NJ. I can get a pistol permit, but I can only transport it from my home to an authorized range. If I can't prove I'm on my way to a range I will be arrested. So I would only be able to use a spray or shotgun, And I agree if the wind is wrong I will up close and personnel with the bear. I'm not afraid to be around bears I chase them off my garbage can wkly. here, I'm just cautious is all. Bears are wild and unpredictable, especially the ones use to being around people. here in NJ they don't have any real fear of people.

Under NJ F&W IIRC you are allowed to carry a firearm, including pistol, when hunting. Plus with the recent SCOTUS ruling you no longer need justifiable need to CCW...