BDX Bluetooth systems are not legal in Idaho

[Reburn]

I disagree, but that’s ok. In my mind, the line should be drawn at equipment that allows for shots to be made at ranges outside of an animal’s ability to sense danger and react accordingly. In my experience this is usually somewhere around 400 ish yards. Just my take. A rangefinder is still useful to determine if it’s 310 yards and a reasonable shot, or 450 yards and a no-go. Sometimes, like across a canyon, that’s hard to tell without a rangefinder.

We can have this debate, and have, till the cows come home. To me, I draw my ethical lines at ranges where the animal can no longer sense fear. It’s that simple. If equipment enables or encourages shots beyond that range, well, that’s where the ethical debates start.

So here is some questions. I have a place our native whitetails will let you drive a truck within 100 yards before they trigger a flight response. So would 200 yards be an unethical shot? If that's the case I know a couple places that the elk will bust you at 1000 yards. So there a 900 yard shot is ok? What about mule deer. I've see some that are dumber then chit and some that will bust at a tumble weed at 700 yards.

Where do you draw the line? Who gets to draw a line in the sand on "ethics" They cease to be ethics when you make a law. Who gets to decide the range? Is it county by county or state wide?

 

[SDHNTR]

So here is some questions. I have a place our native whitetails will let you drive a truck within 100 yards before they trigger a flight response. So would 200 yards be an unethical shot? If that's the case I know a couple places that the elk will bust you at 1000 yards. So there a 900 yard shot is ok? What about mule deer. I've see some that are dumber then chit and some that will bust at a tumble weed at 700 yards.

Where do you draw the line? Who gets to draw a line in the sand on "ethics" They cease to be ethics when you make a law. Who gets to decide the range? Is it county by county or state wide?

Ok. I shouldn’t but I’ll bite. Ethics are an individual thing and I only stated what that meant to me. YMMV. That said, all of our laws stem from a sense of right and wrong, which comes from ethics. IMO, as hunters at large, I doubt our ability to police ourselves, so the law has to step in at some point. When is that point? Methinks, that point is when equipment takes so much skill out of the equation that the animals lose their natural advantage. Stuff like Bluetooth, illuminated reticles, and huge magnification puts us there. Again, JMO. It’s ok if you disagree.

In your example, since you asked me individually, I wouldn’t get much satisfaction from shooting a deer with a gun that showed no fear at 100 yards. So in that case, I wouldn’t use a gun. I’d chase them with a bow or a pistol or something where I had to get inside that range. Now that doesn’t mean I think it should be illegal. But you’ve got to agree There’s a huge difference between 100 and 1000 yards. A half step, or a mild gust of wind, mid trigger at 1000 yards means a gut shot or a jawbone blown off. Way too many chances for a terribly unfortunate outcome. So does that mean that shooting a dumb deer at 100 should be legal and a smart elk at 1000 be illegal? IMO, no not technically, but one has to ask themselves If we should allow equipment that encourages and is marketed for such behavior! We can’t outlaw the behavior (at least not easily or uniformly) but we can limit the technology that encourages such behavior. I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

I think the bdx system is rubbish anyways. Wind is the variable. Gravity is constant and easily corrected for.

but as for the fudd’s calling anything past 300 yards unethical. Yeah okay.

most any shot over about 70 seems to be unethical for the vast majority of knuckle draggers that get tags.

Personally I think 500 yards is a lot easier shot then 250. By a lot. And that’s not hyperbole. Much more likely to take a bad trigger press when time and space are a premium.

 

[Reburn]

@SDHUNTER

It's ok to bite on the question. I asked because I was seeking your opinion. I don't disagree with you on any specific point. I'm very in the middle right now. I have semi recently (3 years) begun stretching my legs further and further. With the farther I learn to shoot the more I realize I don't want to shoot at animals as far as I am capable of shooting. I haven't decided if the BDX system is ethically ok for me or not. I can say I have chosen to not get into that system because of some of the technical aspects of it. I'm still using a standalone rangefinder and standalone scope and twisting turrets.

I do agree with you that systems like the BDX that give people the brashness of taking long range shots without putting in the work to get to long range is semi dangerous. Even with those systems you still need to put in the work and verify your dope and system at range on targets before animals. If someone wants to do all that and use the system I don't really think I have a problem with it.

I just don't know where the line in the sand should be but it appears as states have already started to draw it.

 

[SDHNTR]

@SDHUNTER

It's ok to bite on the question. I asked because I was seeking your opinion. I don't disagree with you on any specific point. I'm very in the middle right now. I have semi recently (3 years) begun stretching my legs further and further. With the farther I learn to shoot the more I realize I don't want to shoot at animals as far as I am capable of shooting. I haven't decided if the BDX system is ethically ok for me or not. I can say I have chosen to not get into that system because of some of the technical aspects of it. I'm still using a standalone rangefinder and standalone scope and twisting turrets.

I do agree with you that systems like the BDX that give people the brashness of taking long range shots without putting in the work to get to long range is semi dangerous. Even with those systems you still need to put in the work and verify your dope and system at range on targets before animals. If someone wants to do all that and use the system I don't really think I have a problem with it.

I just don't know where the line in the sand should be but it appears as states have already started to draw it.

Hey thanks for the cordial response! Very rare these days. Bravo.

 

[tdhanses]

@SDHUNTER

It's ok to bite on the question. I asked because I was seeking your opinion. I don't disagree with you on any specific point. I'm very in the middle right now. I have semi recently (3 years) begun stretching my legs further and further. With the farther I learn to shoot the more I realize I don't want to shoot at animals as far as I am capable of shooting. I haven't decided if the BDX system is ethically ok for me or not. I can say I have chosen to not get into that system because of some of the technical aspects of it. I'm still using a standalone rangefinder and standalone scope and twisting turrets.

I do agree with you that systems like the BDX that give people the brashness of taking long range shots without putting in the work to get to long range is semi dangerous. Even with those systems you still need to put in the work and verify your dope and system at range on targets before animals. If someone wants to do all that and use the system I don't really think I have a problem with it.

I just don't know where the line in the sand should be but it appears as states have already started to draw it.

I have to agree, I think this tech could lead people to overestimate their ability. Maybe it’ll be good for 400 and in but it really does limit you from what I’ve seen.

Personally I prefer the manual aspect of dialing and learning exactly what I’m capable of vs a dot illuminated.

 

[87TT]

I think we have had precedent for limiting equipment since game laws were invented. Back when we started conservation as sportsmen, we limited shotguns to two in the mag and one in the chamber so as not to take unfair advantage. What is different. Somewhere a line has to be drawn. Everyone complains about not enough game. We as sportsmen like our predecessors need to step up and make the hard choices.

 

[pwdrski]

Just spoke with Idaho fish and game enforcement. The BDX link blue tooth systems are NOT legal in Idaho. $600 fine min or the discretion of the officer.

I just got off the phone with Idaho Fish and Game and even if the batteries are removed and the scope is used as a traditional scope it's still illegal. That doesn't make any sense. Nor does the ruling. The BDX system makes ethical clean killing shots more likely. I've used the system on elk and hogs, with 1 shot killing results and no lost game. Doesn't make sense.

 

[87TT]

49 other states just saying

 

[pwdrski]

Wouldn't be an issue but I leave in a week for a 7 day horse/mule pack in for elk/mulie hunt in Idaho and both my .300 mags are mounted with Sig Sauer BDX systems. I had no idea there was any western states that considered the system illegal!

 

[Marbles]

I just got off the phone with Idaho Fish and Game and even if the batteries are removed and the scope is used as a traditional scope it's still illegal. That doesn't make any sense. Nor does the ruling. The BDX system makes ethical clean killing shots more likely. I've used the system on elk and hogs, with 1 shot killing results and no lost game. Doesn't make sense.

I think this is due to enforcement reasons. It would be easy for someone to pull the batteries (if not on the Sig system then some other one). Rather like it would be easy to download a shotgun, so a plug is required.

 

[Reburn]

Wouldn't be an issue but I leave in a week for a 7 day horse/mule pack in for elk/mulie hunt in Idaho and both my .300 mags are mounted with Sig Sauer BDX systems. I had no idea there was any western states that considered the system illegal!

Yea but its on you bud to know the game laws. They were published when you applied for the tag or decided or go on the hunt. I know which states allow what let off for archery and lighted pins and nocks and even though I know I still check the laws. Sorry about your luck but it sounds like you should get a new scope mounted and dialed in ASAP.

 

[pwdrski]

Yea but its on you bud to know the game laws. They were published when you applied for the tag or decided or go on the hunt. I know which states allow what let off for archery and lighted pins and nocks and even though I know I still check the laws. Sorry about your luck but it sounds like you should get a new scope mounted and dialed in ASAP.

Agreed.

 

[CorbLand]

I just got off the phone with Idaho Fish and Game and even if the batteries are removed and the scope is used as a traditional scope it's still illegal. That doesn't make any sense. Nor does the ruling. The BDX system makes ethical clean killing shots more likely. I've used the system on elk and hogs, with 1 shot killing results and no lost game. Doesn't make sense.

If all game laws were how to increase ethical, clean kill shots...a 50BMG carries more energy at 1800 yards than a 300WM does at the muzzle. Just saying.

 

[JeffRaines]

I agree on them banning the use of the BDX system.

I also agree with the guy that said we crossed a line a long time ago with technology(optics, atvs, etc).

I disagree with the notion that shooting long range is easy. It’s a skill - much like stalking - that requires a butt load of practice to perfect. It’s not anything like shooting 200 yards at your local range. The guys who can do it are honestly at the top of their game. The problem is the guys who buy a BDC scope, watch a YouTube video or two and think “man I can do this it’s easy”. The same guy that only shoots a couple rounds a year at hunter sight in... that’s the idiot running around the woods wounding animals because “the scope manual said if I hold this dot at this range I’m good”.

 

[87TT]

Yep, my rifle already is capable of shooting better than me.

 

[Reburn]

I agree on them banning the use of the BDX system.

I also agree with the guy that said we crossed a line a long time ago with technology(optics, atvs, etc).

I disagree with the notion that shooting long range is easy. It’s a skill - much like stalking - that requires a butt load of practice to perfect. It’s not anything like shooting 200 yards at your local range. The guys who can do it are honestly at the top of their game. The problem is the guys who buy a BDC scope, watch a YouTube video or two and think “man I can do this it’s easy”. The same guy that only shoots a couple rounds a year at hunter sight in... that’s the idiot running around the woods wounding animals because “the scope manual said if I hold this dot at this range I’m good”.

I would personally like to think that me fellow hunters are using the system in practice and practicing a ton so when the moment of truth comes its tried and tested and nearly automatic. However based upon the number of posts before hunting season of guys that are clearly not ready and the number of posts of guys in april trying to get ready being at 20-1 or so. I have begun to feel like you do. I have gone from sitting on the fence to the they should not be legal its a bad idea camp.

 

[orionthehunter1]

Wouldn't be an issue but I leave in a week for a 7 day horse/mule pack in for elk/mulie hunt in Idaho and both my .300 mags are mounted with Sig Sauer BDX systems. I had no idea there was any western states that considered the system illegal!

There are also illegal in Colorado

 

[Brewski]

Wouldn't be an issue but I leave in a week for a 7 day horse/mule pack in for elk/mulie hunt in Idaho and both my .300 mags are mounted with Sig Sauer BDX systems. I had no idea there was any western states that considered the system illegal!

You had no idea? Doesn't make sense?
You bought the most advanced scope and didn't bother checking any western states regulations before applying for the tags?
I'm glad your ignorance put you in your situation.

 

[Marbles]

Wouldn't be an issue but I leave in a week for a 7 day horse/mule pack in for elk/mulie hunt in Idaho and both my .300 mags are mounted with Sig Sauer BDX systems. I had no idea there was any western states that considered the system illegal!

That sucks.

At least you found out easier than being charged with a crime. Sounds like it is time to figure out a different scope or rifle and get to the range.