Barrel Cleaning…data

[Choupique]

no amount of “carbon build up” that is stopping a bullet in a bore.

Correct. Properly loaded, the barrel would burst if the bullet stopped. The only way a bullet sticks without the barrel exploding is a squib.

 

[General RE LEE]

I like to get the carbon out with Hoppes and a bronze brush every 100 rounds or so. I also clean the chamber real good. My bore stays in a pretty consistent window throughout its life.

 

[Wrench]

Let's just take a minute to separate the data and the bullshit.

If shots 200-500 sped up due to carbon build up and pressure signs were showing, this leads anyone who can logic to think that it's possible and arguably probable.

Now let's step forward to shot 501 where we go from high pressure, high velocity to a stuck bullet. This is what you call bullshit if placing blame on the barrel.

You should be able to guess that a poorly charged case is to blame. I can't imagine Hornady suggesting that being an ammo maker....but let me encourage you to think higher level and offer a retort.

 

[Choupique]

I like to clean my barrels just because it makes my office smell good, and cleaning rifles pairs well with knob creek single barrel.

Cant hurt anything, fun to do, gives me an excuse to hide out in my office with whiskey. Why wouldn't someone clean their barrels?

 

[Jimbee]

I like to clean my barrels just because it makes my office smell good, and cleaning rifles pairs well with knob creek single barrel.

Cant hurt anything, fun to do, gives me an excuse to hide out in my office with whiskey. Why wouldn't someone clean their barrels?

No kink shaming here...

 

[Carl Ross]

I like to clean my barrels just because it makes my office smell good, and cleaning rifles pairs well with knob creek single barrel.

Cant hurt anything, fun to do, gives me an excuse to hide out in my office with whiskey. Why wouldn't someone clean their barrels?

My biggest reason not to clean a barrel on any given day is cleaning it can change the point of impact and velocity until it gets shot enough to foul in and stabilize. If I clean it, I have to go shoot it again before I'm confident taking it hunting or to a match.

Second, I don't enjoy mantinence chores and look to reduce or eliminate any that aren't giving me something in return. Sounds like you're getting enjoyment out of it, can't say that I do.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I like to clean my barrels just because it makes my office smell good, and cleaning rifles pairs well with knob creek single barrel.

Cant hurt anything, fun to do, gives me an excuse to hide out in my office with whiskey. Why wouldn't someone clean their barrels?

How often are you cleaning and how many rounds are you seeing before velocity comes back to being more consistent?

My main gripe with cleaning was always that period of 40-60 rounds before the barrels would truly stabilize. I shoot long range, and shoot multiple guns minimum 3-5 days per week.

If I drank knob creek I’d be so hammered I’d probably fall sleep and forget which guns got cleaned and which ones didn’t

 

[bowrunner81]

How often are you cleaning and how many rounds are you seeing before velocity comes back to being more consistent?

My main gripe with cleaning was always that period of 40-60 rounds before the barrels would truly stabilize. I shoot long range, and shoot multiple guns minimum 3-5 days per week.

If I drank knob creek I’d be so hammered I’d probably fall sleep and forget which guns got cleaned and which ones didn’t

You've seen 40-60 rounds before the barrel fouls in or whatever it does and you get consistent velocities? I wasn't really checking velocity before to see when it stabilized, but I was getting consistent groups and back to my zero by about 5-10 rounds on rifles.

 

[Choupique]

How often are you cleaning

Once a year at the most. Depends how many rainy cold days there are in February.

how many rounds are you seeing before velocity comes back to being more consistent?

No clue. I don't check it. Clean after hunting season but before I start fishing. By the time hunting season comes back around I've either shot them at some point during the summer or will check zero before the season.

 

[KyleR1985]

If I drank knob creek I’d be so hammered I’d probably fall sleep and forget which guns got cleaned and which ones didn’t

Could explain the lack of available data to support the stuck bullets…

 

[Choupique]

Sounds like you're getting enjoyment out of it

Its an excuse to hide out in my shop office for a few hours. I wouldn't say I enjoy it, but I have to be doing something at all times so it pops into my head as something productive I can do whist drinking and hiding from my wife.

 

[JGRaider]

My biggest reason not to clean a barrel on any given day is cleaning it can change the point of impact and velocity until it gets shot enough to foul in and stabilize. If I clean it, I have to go shoot it again before I'm confident taking it hunting or to a match.

Second, I don't enjoy mantinence chores and look to reduce or eliminate any that aren't giving me something in return. Sounds like you're getting enjoyment out of it, can't say that I do.

I hear you loud and clear, and couldn't agree more.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

You've seen 40-60 rounds before the barrel fouls in or whatever it does and you get consistent velocities? I wasn't really checking velocity before to see when it stabilized, but I was getting consistent groups and back to my zero by about 5-10 rounds on rifles.

Depends on the gun and cartridge but in general, before hunting, competing, or long range shooting verification, yes. I would want 40-60 minimum through the gun before those trips.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Could explain the lack of available data to support the stuck bullets…

haha. The only time I drink is socially. BBQs, meet ups with friends, I’ll have a few beers or whatever.

I can’t picture myself drinking hard liquor by myself hiding in my office, but life can be tough and you never know where you may end up someday.

 

[wind gypsy]

I totally agree, I'd love to see the raw data.

People (outside of the bubble of the internet) often ask me about rifle cleaning. I tell them there is no consensus.

In PRS, I know or know of top shooters who clean between individual days of matches (like Francis Colon and Chad Heckler), and I know of top shooters who put on a barrel, shoot it out, and put on a new one (like Vibbert). Both have been quite successful. I think in the Houston Warehouse writeup they would clean, shoot a fouler, shoot a five shot group, and clean.

I'm familiar with Form's take and Ryan's take. And I'm familiar with Frank Green and the Hornady guys take (include Miles who initiated the group testing research on his own I believe).

I want to have my own opinions and not have to share other people's so much. I'm 764 rounds into carefully controlling my loads on my current 6 Dasher barrel and documenting 20 round groups and chrono data between matches. It's an N of 1 (as any individual barrel is) but I'm interested to see how it goes. Maybe I'll start a thread to share results one day.

On a VP precision podcast a while back Vibbert alluded to not cleaning eventually biting him in a match where he was struggling with elevation that IIRC he attributed to carbon fouling. Would have to relisten as it's prob 2-3 years old to confirm if i'm referencing it correctly.

 

[wind gypsy]

Agree on cleaning being a headache. I typically bring 3 or so rifles to each range trip and lately most range trips are only 1-2 hours available there. If I were to clean the 4 or 5 rifles that could probably use it right now, it's going to be a big enough time suck that it could have otherwise been used to go to the range one more time.

 

[HighUintas]

I didn’t “scream for data”. I was trying to have a conversation with @Marbles while I was on the range and unable to listen, about what they said that lead him to his statements, however- he wasn’t interested in a discussion.

Didn't provide any data pertinent to his question after you gave stories and anecdotal information on Hornady's lot variation, but a non-response "that's exactly my point"

That’s not how that works. You prove a positive, not a negative (generally). If case geometry somehow makes a cartridge more efficient- that is less MV FPS loss per inch of barrel loss than other similar capacity cartridges, then it’s on someone to prove that it does. Not on people to prove that it does not.

Yes I know how proving a null hypothesis works, but this is unimportant regarding the event. I suggested something, and your reply was that it is a myth. It is generally on the person making definitive statements to provide evidence backing it, and none was given.

 

[JF_Idaho]

Caveat: Nothing more than "I think, I feel" and my personal observations.

I have been cleaning my rifles often, lately.

Up until last year I rarely cleaned. Upon inspection of one of my better shooting rifles (blueprinted 700 with a shilen ChrMo barrel) I found what have been dubbed "barrel worms" in said barrel. Whether inclusions in the barrel steel or corrosion I can't say.

There are obviously different levels of cleaning. I am almost exclusively only cleaning carbon and fouling. Rarely am I ever using a copper solvent. I think there is a distinction there. I did have a considerable carbon ring on a 300wsm recently and it was a chore to get out, but other than that particular instance a hard carbon ring has not been an issue.

I have not had issues with errant fouling shots other than maybe the first shot after cleaning. Nothing insane, maybe 1/2 moa outside the usual dispersion. Nothing irregular in SDs. Staying <10fps in my loads.

I could see the higher round count fouling shots for stabilization if your baseline is a barrel that has 50-how ever many shots in the bore without cleaning. But can attest from my personal experience of late that using a clean barrel as a baseline, has not given me any anomalies.

I feel like leaving fouling and hard carbon would add extra abrasives into the barrel which could accelerate wear. And that it holds moisture to possibly corrode some steels.

I will keep on cleaning regularly now until something leads me to believe it's detrimental.

Just my opinion, for now.

 

[Carl Ross]

On a VP precision podcast a while back Vibbert alluded to not cleaning eventually biting him in a match where he was struggling with elevation that IIRC he attributed to carbon fouling. Would have to relisten as it's prob 2-3 years old to confirm if i'm referencing it correctly.

Copy. I remember him mentioning an elevation issue where he cleaned his barrel, but it turned out to be his Geovids. Might have missed the one you're mentioning. Morgun mentioned once he got bit by under-cleaning, I think a 6.5 Creedmoor. I think I've had issues with under-cleaning my Seekins 6 Creed. I'll be investigating that further too.

 

[ckleeves]

I think it’s highly dependent on chamber and powder used, some never need cleaned and others you can end up in a bad way without cleaning.

I currently have a 6.5 creed barrel that won’t chamber a factory 140 or 147 eldm because of carbon that no amount of scrubbing will fix. Apparently shooting a few hundred Bergers with StaBall 6.5 will do that. You can clearly see the marks on the ojive where it’s contacting. I think running a reamer into it is the only way it’s getting back to good.

I also have a 300 wsm barrel that I have kept a pretty good eye on, along with having 50 rounds loaded from when it was new. Wasn’t intentional, ADG finally came in right after i had loaded 50 pieces of Norma. I shoot a few of them before/after cleaning to track velocity. It needs cleaned about every 70 rounds or pressure (and velocity) start to climb. I tried ignoring it and started getting into the danger zone on pressure. Cleaning brings it right back to where it should run.

I also have a 6 creed barrel that I still runs the same load and more or less the same velocity it did when it had 100 rounds on it that now has 700 and it’s never been cleaned.