Barnes TTSX vs. Berger bullets

[Adrenalinetaxidermy]

Hey guys, I have a question for people on their thoughts. I shoot a 300 Weatherby ultralight and have reloaded Barnes TTSX bullets for it. Shoots great but guys seem to try and get me to switch to Berger bullets for shooting 400-700 yd range. I also use magpro powder. What's thoughts on comparison and the powder? Thanks guys

 

[Rucker61]

I shoot TTSX/RL17 in my .300 WSM, my hunting buddy shoots Bergers/Retumbo in his 7mm. We both shoot sub-MOA out to 300 yars, and ring steel out to 500. Stick with what you like and what shoots well.

 

[idig4au]

Why would you change if it shoots well with Barnes?

I shoot Barnes ttsx in all of my rifles and they seem to work well, so no desire to change to anything else. Of its not broken then don't fix it is my belief!

 

[BeWitty]

Keep shooting the TTSX. My Dad and I both have300 WBY ultralights and they shoot the 180s and 200s great. And they do the trick on animals.

Both shoot sub MOA at longrange.

 

[charvey9]

The Berger have a higher BC. If you can work up a load that shot as accurately as the TTSX the higher BC bullets would stabilize better at long range, but other factors come in to play. Wouldn't hurt to play with the Bergers and see what you can get.

 

[GKPrice]

comparing Bergers to TTSX's when terminal performance is the end goal really is not a fair contest - Usually the Bergers will be more "accurate" and easier to find a load for but use them only if you like bloodshot on your game - I sometimes use Berger Classics but only when I've been able to get a TTSX, ETIP, Accubond or LRX to shoot to my liking .... My opinion .....

 

[critrgitr]

The barnes is hands down a better hunting bullet and berger is a better paper puncher. I switched from the 210 gr bergers in my 300 RUM to 200 gr barnes lrx after having 4 exit holes on a Cow elk and everything in the front shoulders and under side of loin was extremely bloodshot. I could get the bergers to cloverleaf at 100 yards where I can't get the barnes lrx to quite do it. However, the barnes LRX are not lacking any accuracy. Last Saturday I shot a 2.75" group at 610 yards with the barnes out of my RUM. My load is 91.5 gr H1000, federal 215 gm primer out of my factory sako with a 26" tube going 3185 fps. Every animal I have killed with a barnes ttsx or lrx has dropped in its tracks with one shot, and the bullet is always just under the off side hide with 4 perfect pedals. All the recovered bullets have all been 95%+ weight retention. Berger will definitely do the job, but they make a heck of a mess.

 

[mtnwrunner]

Guess I would have to disagree that the barnes is a better hunting bullet than the berger. The bergers are extremely accurate, have a much better BC and have done everything they are supposed to do. Totally different bullet construction and effectiveness between the two. I am a vital guy and that is what I shoot for. NEVER had an animal escape. But this is just my opinion from personal experience and I really like the bergers.

Randy

 

[Broz]

Guess I would have to disagree that the barnes is a better hunting bullet than the berger. The bergers are extremely accurate, have a much better BC and have done everything they are supposed to do. Totally different bullet construction and effectiveness between the two. I am a vital guy and that is what I shoot for. NEVER had an animal escape. But this is just my opinion from personal experience and I really like the bergers.

Randy

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What Randy said. The key here is distance and impact velocity. The Bergers will have less wind drift and drop due to higher BC at increased distances. The Berger WILL open better and do more destructive terminal damage to vitals. The Barnes is a controlled expansion bullet and it does just that. It will expand less, and the farther you go out the lower impact velocity will result in even less expansion. Especially if you miss bone. This pattern will continue until there is no expansion and where the term "Pencil Through" will apply. That is the reason I switched from Barnes to Berger years ago. Have not lost one animal since, can't say the same prior to the switch. I shoot a 300 win and let others take their game with it if they need it. My 300 win is 24 and zero for first round kills with 215 Berger Hybrids. Not one required a second shot, not one left the immediate area. Many elk , deer and antelope , 200 yards to 1300.

They are two totally different kinds of bullet and they work totally different. I would not use a Barnes past 450 yards, but that is my personal preference. There is a reason the larger majority of the long range hunters do not use Barnes. But its a choice you need to make for yourself. Whatever Bullet you choose, know its limitations, and its strong points, know how it works under different impact velocities, then use this knowledge to the best of YOUR advantage.

Good Hunting.

Jeff

EDIT to add: Meat loss has very little to do with bullet type, but it has much to do with placement and impact velocity. Ever shot a deer in the shoulder with a 55 gr bullet from a 220 swift? I have before I knew better, and lost most of both front shoulders. But yet a 215 Berger at 3000 fps behind the shoulder and the deer is dead faster and you loose maybe a handful of rib meat.

 

[fire arrow]

I have to say what ^^^^^^^ he said about how a bullet reacts to speed. Ever since I went to a berger, as long as I did my job on bullet placement, it just falls down dead. My last hog I shot was at 500 yards, and it was a high shoulder shot. That hog was dead before he started to fall. But as stated above, try the bullets out for your self and see how they fly. If they work good, and they will, have no reservation about using them for hunting. Just don't take shoulder shots, because there will be some meat lose as these bullets are very devistating.

 

[Cahunter805]

I agree with Jeff and others. The Berger is an excellent bullet and I prefer them. Very accurate and extremely effective.

Also many people say Bergers are a mess or bloodshot a lot. Ever shoulder shoot an animal with a Barnes? It's a huge bloodshot mess and I personally think Barnes create the most bloodshot and meat loss of all premium bullets I've tried.

 

[Adrenalinetaxidermy]

Thank you all for your input! I think ultimately yea, if it's not broke, no sense in fixing it. Thanks again!

 

[Bushcraft]

I prefer to not use lead grenades on animals I intend to eat.

I made the switch to Barnes a long time ago and love 'em. 168 TTSX's with a stout load of Varget for .308. 168 TTSX's with 66 grains of Retumbo in 300 WSM makes teeny tiny groups. 180 TTSX's in 300 RUM, though I am doing ladder tests with the newer 200 LRX's. I really like the 210 VLD's for practice in the 300 RUM since they are cheaper and group smaller.

Ultimately, the knock on Barnes is and has always been about it "penciling" when they run out of steam. That's going to happen with monolithic bullets sooner than jacketed lead core bullets.

Bottom line...If you are going to use Barnes TSX's or TTSX's, you just need to be aware of your terminal ballistics and don't shoot a big game animal if the terminal velocity dips below 1900-2000 fps. Above those speeds they'll open up just fine and kill 'em just as stone dead as any other bullet that blows a big invasive hole through an animal's vitals...and you won't have to deal with the whole lead grenade bloodshot thing.

 

[PARA1]

I can say I would not switch from what works, That being said I love the Berger in most cases but if I hunted in bear country I would take the
TTSX any day of the week and twice on Sunday. V/R

 

[Sam Millard]

Do any of you guys using Barnes TTSX bullets at long range have some pics of wound channels? I'm talking 600 yards and out.

 

[GKPrice]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What Randy said. The key here is distance and impact velocity. The Bergers will have less wind drift and drop due to higher BC at increased distances. The Berger WILL open better and do more destructive terminal damage to vitals. The Barnes is a controlled expansion bullet and it does just that. It will expand less, and the farther you go out the lower impact velocity will result in even less expansion. Especially if you miss bone. This pattern will continue until there is no expansion and where the term "Pencil Through" will apply. That is the reason I switched from Barnes to Berger years ago. Have not lost one animal since, can't say the same prior to the switch. I shoot a 300 win and let others take their game with it if they need it. My 300 win is 24 and zero for first round kills with 215 Berger Hybrids. Not one required a second shot, not one left the immediate area. Many elk , deer and antelope , 200 yards to 1300.

They are two totally different kinds of bullet and they work totally different. I would not use a Barnes past 450 yards, but that is my personal preference. There is a reason the larger majority of the long range hunters do not use Barnes. But its a choice you need to make for yourself. Whatever Bullet you choose, know its limitations, and its strong points, know how it works under different impact velocities, then use this knowledge to the best of YOUR advantage.

Good Hunting.

Jeff

EDIT to add: Meat loss has very little to do with bullet type, but it has much to do with placement and impact velocity. Ever shot a deer in the shoulder with a 55 gr bullet from a 220 swift? I have before I knew better, and lost most of both front shoulders. But yet a 215 Berger at 3000 fps behind the shoulder and the deer is dead faster and you loose maybe a handful of rib meat.

I'd hardly call Bergers "controlled expansion" but maybe "uncontrolled expansion" and throwing a 55 grain from a 220 Swift does you "argument" little, if any, good - The Barnes TSX have had problems expanding at extended ranges but all I've been able to get for reviews and judgements say the TTSX has cured that - the FRONT SHOULDER is a classic "stop it where it stands" shot - try THAT with a Berger at 300 yards (and classic HUNTER'S range)

 

[GKPrice]

Do any of you guys using Barnes TTSX bullets at long range have some pics of wound channels? I'm talking 600 yards and out.

Sam, I can't say that I do - If I can't get closer than 600 yards before I shoot then I go back to camp and rub my knees some more

 

[GKPrice]

Here is MY opinion (for the little value that it's worth) I have and do use Bergers - During cow seasons when the elk bunch up it's a lot better bet to use a bullet that you plan on NOT penetrating through and through - "IF" you are DARN sure of your shot at whatever yardage (or mileage) you plan to shoot the animal at then by all means, shoot for the vitals - There is no question that a Berger put SQUARELY into the vitals will drop the target like a sack of spuds but let's see ..... at 800 yds ... 1000 yds ... further .... how does YOUR rifle group ? with a 10 mph cross wind (moderate in most mountain scenarios) I'm not trolling, grousing or criticizing BUT .......... (and YES, I agree that pigs are different)

 

[Bulldawg]

I shot an elk with a 185 Berger behind the shoulder and found 30 grains of lead in the hind quarter.. Last time I shot it.

 

[Sam Millard]

Guys, my question was a serious one. How many of you have shot an animal at long range with a Barnes TTSX? I would really like to see what it does at extended ranges.

There are plenty of stories of bullets doing this and that scattered all over the internet. I've killed animals at all kinds of distances with every bullet you can think of except Barnes. I use SMKs, AMAXs, and HVLDs every year on animals at long range, and they all work as designed. When any high-velocity rifle bullet hits tissue full of blood, it creates a temporary and permanent wound channel that blows the capillaries. Hell, I've seen broadheads create wound channels that looked like a rifle shot. So what? The faster that animal bleeds out, the faster he dies.

This is posted in the long range hunting forum, right?