Bare Shaft Tuning

[Tilzbow]

I've bare shaft tuned recurves and longbows and have found the technique gives good results. When doing this I don't pay much attention to the angle the arrow impacts the target since that can be affected by inconsistencies in the target medium. I do however make adjustments based on the relationship between the point of impact of a bare shaft compared to a fletched shaft. For example if the bare shaft impacts low I'll lower the nock point. If it impacts right, I'll lower the tip weight and so on.

I understand the changes that can be made with a recurve to bring the point of impact together are rather limited while a compound provides many more options. For example yoke tuning can move the bare shaft right or left, along with rest adjustments, changing spine, etc.


So my question is do you make tuning adjustments solely based on point of impact differences between bare shafts and fletched shafts when bare shaft tuning a compound or do you also factor in the angle of impact of the bare shaft?

 

[OR Archer]

Like you said the target can have an effect on this, so trying to account for the angle is useless in my opinion.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

Like you said the target can have an effect on this, so trying to account for the angle is useless in my opinion.

Agreed I almost never bare shaft tune for this reason

 

[ontarget7]

Agreed I almost never bare shaft tune for this reason

Honestly when you have done this enough you will no what the angle of the bareshaft means and what corrections to make in regards to it.

Just stay with a consistent material for a target. I don't recommend a bag target because they very a lot in regards to the angle upon entry

 

[60x]

for me bareshaft tuning is about the point of impact differences between a fletched arrow and a bareshaft not the angle, with tuning that will work itself out..

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

Honestly when you have done this enough you will no what the angle of the bareshaft means and what corrections to make in regards to it.

Just stay with a consistent material for a target. I don't recommend a bag target because they very a lot in regards to the angle upon entry

I'm sure you're right since my opinion on the subject is in the minority, I had inconsistent results a few times and gave up with it and stuck with paper tuning only which has worked for me.

 

[Tilzbow]

Shane,

I've got some good bails so if using the angle of the arrow a couple examples of potential would be:

1) Nock high = lower nock or raise rest
2) Nock left = move rest left, change point weight or yoke tune

Correct?

Do you use POI and/or arrow angle when bare shaft tuning?

My late season muley hunt is about over then it'll be time to get a new bow and start preparing for a Stone Sheep hunt that's booked for August. The past few years I've started with paper tuning then moved on to broad head tuning but I'd like to give bare shafting a try with the new CS 34 this year.

 

[60x]

I'm sure you're right since my opinion on the subject is in the minority, I had inconsistent results a few times and gave up with it and stuck with paper tuning only which has worked for me.

I hope my posts don't come across to harsh. To me tuning means what gets you the best results to get the best possible groups and best flight for a broad head. There are several was of accomplishing this and honestly the best way is what gets results for you the shooter. Paper is truly a great method but I have watched countless time archers drive themselves insane with paper . I have also seen them put thier nock point/rest way out of whack cause they got a better tear. I think if understood bareshaft tuning is much simpler at times to get the same results.. But when something works there is no reasons to change it

Some good info here...

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2128129

 

[OR Archer]

I hope my posts don't come across to harsh. To me tuning means what gets you the best results to get the best possible groups and best flight for a broad head. There are several was of accomplishing this and honestly the best way is what gets results for you the shooter. Paper is truly a great method but I have watched countless time archers drive themselves insane with paper . I have also seen them put thier nock point/rest way out of whack cause they got a better tear. I think if understood bareshaft tuning is much simpler at times to get the same results.. But when something works there is no reasons to change it

100% agree with you here.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

I hope my posts don't come across to harsh. To me tuning means what gets you the best results to get the best possible groups and best flight for a broad head. There are several was of accomplishing this and honestly the best way is what gets results for you the shooter. Paper is truly a great method but I have watched countless time archers drive themselves insane with paper . I have also seen them put thier nock point/rest way out of whack cause they got a better tear. I think if understood bareshaft tuning is much simpler at times to get the same results.. But when something works there is no reasons to change it

No not harsh at all. I realize I am no expert and in fact wish I had better experience with bare shaft tuning as it would a useful tool. Paper tuning has worked for me though so that's what I've stuck with. It did drive me nuts this year but it was my fault for not checking ATA length before I started.

 

[ontarget7]

Shane,

I've got some good bails so if using the angle of the arrow a couple examples of potential would be:

1) Nock high = lower nock or raise rest
2) Nock left = move rest left, change point weight or yoke tune

Correct?

Do you use POI and/or arrow angle when bare shaft tuning?

My late season muley hunt is about over then it'll be time to get a new bow and start preparing for a Stone Sheep hunt that's booked for August. The past few years I've started with paper tuning then moved on to broad head tuning but I'd like to give bare shafting a try with the new CS 34 this year.

I honestly feel that once you become efficient with bareshaft tuning you will never look back to anything else. First and foremost is the right dynamic spine. Some will talk down on the arrow selection programs but I have used them for years and have never been lead in the wrong direction. I go through so many different bows bareshaft tuning and I see great results. I do not recommend trusting the back of your arrow manufacture boxes for the most part. With that said I have also learned what you can and cannot get away with in relation to spine.

Next, I would need to know what bow you have to give you the best advise, with preliminary set up. From there I can advise you with pre lean starting points, centershot, nock height, cam synch etc. The reason I say cam synch, most still think this should be set up at the exact same time to hit your stops, this is not always the case to achieve the best vertical nock travel.

I would need this info to give you the best advise depending on bareshaft angle in the target. It's really not that cut and dry and needs to maintain a balance in nock height, yoke adjustment, centershot and cam synch. With this balance you will have the best possible end results.

Shane

 

[Tilzbow]

I've had good luck with the software too. I'm currently shooting a 2012 Carbon Matrix and it's tuned for broadheads to 60+ yards with 29.5" CE Maxima Hunter 450, .298 spine and 100 grain points. I've also gotten good results from this bow with a 31" .200 spine GT Kinetic and 150 grain head. I got both setups close starting with paper and then finishing with broadheads to get the results I want but want to try bare shaft for the new bow.

For the new stuff I want to increase arrow weight and FOC, keep the speed close to 300 FPS so I plan to add a new arrow and a Carbon Spyder 34, 70#. 30.5" draw to the arsenal. For the new arrow for the CS I'm looking at a 30" Black Eagle Deep Impact LD, .250 spine with a 31 grain outsert and 125 grain head. My TapPro software shows this is just right on spine.

 

[ontarget7]

I'm currently shooting a 2012 Carbon Matrix and it's tuned for broadheads to 60+ yards with 29.5" CE Maxima Hunter 450, .298 spine and 100 grain points. I've also gotten good results from this bow with a 31" .200 spine GT Kinetic and 150 grain head.


I want to increase arrow weight and FOC, keep the speed close to 300 FPS (plus try out new stuff I don't really need...) so I plan to add a new arrow and a Carbon Spyder 34, 70#. 30.5" draw to the arsenal. For the new arrow I'm looking at a 30" Black Eagle Deep Impact LD, .250 spine with a 31 grain outsert and 125 grain head. My TapPro software shows this is just right on spine.

I am assuming 70# ?

When you get to tuning for bareshafts feel free to contact me and I can walk you through it just by pics sent via text. Most don't realize grip is huge and when to make adjustments in tune or strictly from grip alone. The wrong grip will never yield perfect arrow flight with a bareshaft regardless how much adjusting in the tune you try and make

 

[Whisky]

I am assuming 70# ?

When you get to tuning for bareshafts feel free to contact me and I can walk you through it just by pics sent via text. Most don't realize grip is huge and when to make adjustments in tune or strictly from grip alone. The wrong grip will never yield perfect arrow flight with a bareshaft regardless how much adjusting in the tune you try and make

I've tried to read through your different posts and come up with a tuning process and specs that you generally stick to on where things should be, but as you noted every bow is different so things change. I've even seen where you advise people differently be it a Spyder 30 vs 34 (cam lean I think it was).

I know you're a Hoyt guru so I will have a Spyder 34 and most likely a Carbon Spyder 34 I want to attempt bare shaft tuning with at some point.

Side question: You ever bare shaft Hoyt's with whisker biscuits? Any issues there?

 

[bigfish b.c]

ontarget7 what would you recommend for a arrow selection program.

 

[boom]

i had one bow..a Mathews Switchback XT. it could do no wrong. like it was sprinkled with pixie dust or something. rip off the fletching and it would shoot arrows into the same hole..perfectly straight, aligned with the adjacent fletched arrow.

my next bow? hahahaha..never got it down. arrows were like left handed football throws. comical.

this new bow? perfect bareshafts..then i had to move my rest, and my d-loop. no more bareshaft love. i got the rest where it would clear the riser shelf..then moved the d-loop. perfect anchor..started paper tuning. had to tweek the rest some (mostly moved it up) perfect paper tear!! (slight high tear..you can only see it barely if you pushed the hole back together)..found my bareshaft..and WHAM!! it was perfect again..perfect alignment, perfect shots.

i think some bows are easier than others. i am a much wiser bow shopper now..i am not a great tuner, so i wont buy a bow from a shop anymore unless it shoots great paper holes set up "down the middle". normal centershot distance, normal arrow near the berger, arrow 90 off the string, etc. i cannot rely on my skills to fight a finicky bow.

 

[ontarget7]

I've tried to read through your different posts and come up with a tuning process and specs that you generally stick to on where things should be, but as you noted every bow is different so things change. I've even seen where you advise people differently be it a Spyder 30 vs 34 (cam lean I think it was).

I know you're a Hoyt guru so I will have a Spyder 34 and most likely a Carbon Spyder 34 I want to attempt bare shaft tuning with at some point.

Side question: You ever bare shaft Hoyt's with whisker biscuits? Any issues there?

There are quite a few variables that can come into play for each bow. However, that doesn't mean there can't be a very good starting base for the tuning process. I can usually get this very close because of tuning so many different ones you get to know them really well. Then it comes down to fine tuning those adjustments from my shooting results.

A whisker biscuit can cause some issues when trying to bareshaft tune.

 

[ontarget7]

ontarget7 what would you recommend for a arrow selection program.

Ontarget2

 

[bigfish b.c]

Ontarget2

thanks

 

[Tilzbow]

Now that my late season hunt is over I gave this a try tonight. Note my bow was shooting okay but I was getting erratic flight with broadheads past 45 yards so I know it was close to being tuned but not quite perfect. Shooting broadheads at spots at long range for me is tough and I actually find it easier to shoot a real animal so it's tough to know if the bow is out of tune or if I screwed up. Shooting spots with a field point isn't a problem but there's something about that sharp thing and knowing I have to shoot a perfect arrow to hit the spot and prove my bow is tuned that freaks me out.

I first shot a fletch arrow into the X ring at 15 yards then shot a bare shaft next to it. The bare shaft impacted in the same spot but went in at about a 15 degree nock left angle. I messed around with the yoke and after a few more arrows and 1 1/2 twists on the left yoke and 1 1/2 untwists of the right yoke both shafts were entering my Spyder Web target parallel to each other. It was a super quick process and much easier than paper. I'm going to shoot at 10 yards tomorrow to make sure it's okay at a different distance and then shoot bare shafts outside at 20 yds along with broadheads at long range this weekend and see how they're flying. Now if I can find a new Hoyt CS34 in Max 1 to play with!