Bare shaft tuning a recurve

[bjfoxhoven]

340’s out of a 40 lb bow? Seems like you’re over spined. Try some full length 400’s. Heck, you might need a 500. And yes, grouping is more important than how the bareshaft flies due to inconsistent release. Sure, you can get unfletched arrows to fly perfectly, IF the arrow is tuned perfectly and IF you have a perfect release. Tuning can be frustrating, but keep at it until you get it right.

Tuning can definitely make a person scratch their head. I roughly guessed at the 350s looking at multiple sources, and that was what Brian advised as well. Plus I shoot 400 spine arrow with 214 up front, full length bare shaft a perfect out of a less effecient 40lb set up. Hence why I keaned towards the 350s. However any time I talk with people who shoot traditional a lot, they always say to go heavier and tend to get better flight, higher FOC and more forgiving I suppose. But when I strip the fletching off some they fly weak. I should just fletch a few and then go strictly off the point of impact and see where that gets me. Then shoot through paper just to see what that shows for my curiosity.
Lastly, I played around with the strike plate a little and how far out of center with the tip of the arrow... what do people recommend? The day six arrows are so thin that my set up was basically perfect center as far as I could eye ball. Previous set ups for me have been great with the arrow tip just past the string when the bow is loosed. I’m guessing you could basically tune an arrow to whatever the strike plate set up is, or need weaker arrow for further out of center, correct? I’m worried once I fletch These arrows I will end up with fletching contact. Thanks for the Info!

 

[Wrench]

I find that slightly nock high isn't a bad thing.....

 

[bjfoxhoven]

I find that slightly nock high isn't a bad thing.....

I’ve heard that many times before too. Also taking weak/stuff causing nock high and low. weak spine cause nock high, and is that dependent on the amount of cant of the bow? Vertical bow gets nock left when weak so it seems logical they would slide clockwise and the bow cants that way too.

 

[Beendare]

This is a good thread illustrative of getting the other factors in line before you try to bare shaft test.

Hard to say with all of the factors but my setups might act as a guide to some. Factor in these are about as high efficiency limbs as a guy can get and my strike plates put the arrow tip centered on the riser .......a 30" DL

. Bareshaft perfect
64" recurve at 40#, Centershot 500's cut 30.5" with std insert and 125gr tip
64"@50# axis and centershot 340's 31.25" long with 75gr inserts and 150 gr BH's
64" @45#, axis and centershots 400's cut 30.5" 50 gr insert 125gr tip.

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[bjfoxhoven]

This is a good thread illustrative of getting the other factors in line before you try to bare shaft test.

Hard to say with all of the factors but my setups might act as a guide to some. Factor in these are about as high efficiency limbs as a guy can get and my strike plates put the arrow tip centered on the string and a 30" DL

. Bareshaft perfect
64" recurve at 40#, Centershot 500's cut 30.5" with std insert and 125gr tip
64"@50# axis and centershot 340's 31.25" long with 75gr inserts and 150 gr BH's
64" @45#, axis and centershots 400's cut 30.5" 50 gr insert 125gr tip.

________

After I was able to bare shaft tune my 66” 40lb warf recurve I assumed I would be able to do the same with my 62” ilf set up. I’m around 1/2 to 5/8” nock high, real close to center shot ( maybe 1/16 outside or even less). Brace height is where I found it to be the least amount of hand shock and the limbs are even tiller for 3 under. I cannot get the tail low out of it no matter point weight or nock height. 32” arrows, 100 gr inset and I’ve tested points from 125-200 (most of the time the left to right is right on).

I notice your third set up and it looks to me (not counting form, shot execution, etc) I am at least in the ballpark with my arrow configuration with 245 up front on the 350 spine shaft. BTW I’m getting 186 ft/sec out of the 46lb bow. I was pretty pleased with that number considering the weight on the arrow tested was 450ish grains.

either way I will order some fletchings and fletch Few and go that route With the tuning. I’m just trying to get as best flight out of the set up since I plan to hunt next year with trad for the first time.

 

[Beendare]

Did you tie in 2 nocking points 1/4"- 3/8" apart?

I've found that only one nok sometimes has my arrow moving on the string after release. All of the top pros at the Trad Nationals had 2 nokking points- it makes a difference. I tie mine in with thin serving so I can adjust nok point

________

 

[bjfoxhoven]

Did you tie in 2 nocking points 1/4"- 3/8" apart?

I've found that only one nok sometimes has my arrow moving on the string after release. All of the top pros at the Trad Nationals had 2 nokking points- it makes a difference. I tie mine in with thin serving so I can adjust nok point

________

I sure did. That was the first thing I did after reading this thread. I also use some serving so I can adjust it really easily. Works great. I also found one of the shafts is much more drastic than the others, not quite sure why though. Spins true, but there must be some kind of consistency issue with it compared to the other shafts.
I am half tempted to take the shelf/strike plate off and put on the rest that came with the riser. Just out of curiosity to see what difference that would make with the process. If it is life forgiving etc. But I like the simplicity of the shelf and want to hunt that way, so I would rather get the shelf figured out.

 

[Beendare]

There is a flow chart of stuff I do while bareshaft tuning.

Good form; Even with poor spine, you should be able to stand at 8-10 yds and shoot a bareshaft to the same spot every time...even with bad arrow flight if your form is right....though it won't hit with your fletched arrows.

A few things I check before bare shafting;
the double nok set
A bump on the shelf right above your hand
Check strike plate
Make sure no fletch contact
confirm perfect arrow assembly- straight arrows
Correct nok tightness
Consistent shot process; exact same DL, clean release

Then I get into adjusting my nok point up or down and point weight or arrow length for spine adjust.


_______

 

[bjfoxhoven]

There is a flow chart of stuff I do while bareshaft tuning.

Good form; Even with poor spine, you should be able to stand at 8-10 yds and shoot a bareshaft to the same spot every time...even with bad arrow flight if your form is right....though it won't hit with your fletched arrows.

A few things I check before bare shafting;
the double nok set
A bump on the shelf right above your hand
Check strike plate
Make sure no fletch contact
confirm perfect arrow assembly- straight arrows
Correct nok tightness
Consistent shot process; exact same DL, clean release

Then I get into adjusting my nok point up or down and point weight or arrow length for spine adjust.


_______

Thanks beendare. I checked the arrows. Shelf bump is right above the proximal metacarpal phalangeal joint. I went back to a more deep hook like I used to do and have had more consistent good release. Have always had a decent back tension release, however always room for improvement. Get slight target panic at the shot still and have contemplated a clicker, but don’t wanna fuss with too much now. Got the nock height good. Currently have the arrows hitting stuff which is what people think could be the problem. I am going to fletch some soon and bare shaft that way and see what I get.

 

[slvrslngr]

I still think you’re overspined, but if fletched arrows fly great what do I know? Sometimes things work that just don’t make sense.

 

[bjfoxhoven]

I still think you’re overspined, but if fletched arrows fly great what do I know? Sometimes things work that just don’t make sense.

I could be now, they are flying that way now. Unfortunately I had the arrows cut down an inch... I shot them three separate occasions to ensure I was getting good results, I was getting perfect flight with 200 up front (field tip and insert combo) with slight weak results with 125 and 145 field points. Well I wanted to shoot the heavier point for various reason. So gradually cut down the shafts small increments at a time... they kept coming out weak and it never really changed. So I stopped at 1” knowing it should have shown some improvement by that point. I’m still at a 32” arrow with collar day six arrows come with though.

 

[Beendare]

Seems to me the Push guys have a more comprehensive checklist than my quickie above....

Its hard to say what's going on, I didn't see where you posted arrow spine.

 

[bjfoxhoven]

Seems to me the Push guys have a more comprehensive checklist than my quickie above....

Its hard to say what's going on, I didn't see where you posted arrow spine.

The push is awesome. It’s been a while since I watched it. Been shooting traditional for a couple years now. Just getting a lot more serious about it now since I plan to hunt with it next year. Haven’t been consistent enough in the past. Shoot really well now, so for a little heavier set up and working on getting that dialed in with these new arrows. Have some gold tip hunters for it and my other set up too. Just swap out points for dynamic spine changing between the two.
I need to decide what fletchinga for these new arrows too. Wonder if the new trad vanes would be nice. I do hunt in weather a lot. The rayzr 2” seed too small even with a four fletch, especially if I don’t get perfect bare shaft.

 

[bjfoxhoven]

Update... the 350 spine day six arrows at 32” 300 gr up front (46 lb at my 30.5 draw) group well with fletched shafts out to 30 (baseball size group) and 40 yards (slightly larger group). However I can tell they just don’t fly as well as usual. I stripped the fletchings off some cheaper gold tip hunter arrows I had laying around, 31.5 inches and 400 spine (175gr up front) They fly so much better out of my set up. With the day six arrows I had lots of nock low flight and some inconsistent nock left/right (from me I’m sure). My top nock point ended up around 13/16 for the day six arrows. With the gold tips (not micro diameter) they were way tail high but perfect left to right (and much more consistent left to right). Slow motion video just shows the day six arrows wanting to go tail low now matter what.
I feel like the dynamic spine of the two arrows should at least Be close... day six arrow almost double the grains up front, and a little longer. Thoughts? Anyone roughly know the equivalent?
I may change out the nocks and try a rest just out of curiosity to see if they make a difference. if not I will Just out the day six arrows away until I get a different set up and continue shooting the trusty half price gold tip hunters. My set up just might not like the arrows.

 

[Newtosavage]

300 grains?

You're chasing your tail with that much point weight. Just asking for bs tuning problems. Just wow.

Tail low is an indication of overspined from a trad bow, not just nock low.

 

[bjfoxhoven]

300 grains?

You're chasing your tail with that much point weight. Just asking for bs tuning problems. Just wow.

Tail low is an indication of overspined from a trad bow, not just nock low.

Lol yeah I don’t want that much there either. I do not like the flight with them. Little slower than I want and my accuracy dips at longer shots just due to drop if I miss judge by a couple yards. From what everyone was saying I was way over spined, and that was the combo I ended up with that grouped well with the fletched shafts. I was planning on 225 up front when I ordered the shafts, I wasn’t chasing extreme FOC or arrow weight or anything. I just wasted a tough heavier micro shaft that day six has and it’s just not worked out well in the tuning department. I’ve never had these issues with other shafts.

 

[Newtosavage]

Things are gonna get squirrely if you go much over 15% foc No real reason to either.

 

[GLB]

I have been experimenting with this FOC thing as far as flight characteristics and tuning go for the past 2 years. For me I find that when I go much over 20% FOC, arrow flight can be more sensitive to shooting form and wind. I find the sweet spot is 15-18% but still good results up to 20% As far as penetration goes I have not done any testing with that, lots of data out there already. I do know good arrow flight will help penetration.

 

[bjfoxhoven]

I have been experimenting with this FOC thing as far as flight characteristics and tuning go for the past 2 years. For me I find that when I go much over 20% FOC, arrow flight can be more sensitive to shooting form and wind. I find the sweet spot is 15-18% but still good results up to 20% As far as penetration goes I have not done any testing with that, lots of data out there already. I do know good arrow flight will help penetration.

I was aiming for that sweet spot, between 15-18 also. I feel that when you push that number much higher it definitely alters arrow flight a little. And for me a little faster arrow helps a lot with accuracy for longer shooting for practice. Hitting the right spot has a lot to do with penetration also.

 

[LostArra]

Hitting the right spot has a lot to do with penetration also.

^^^Winner!