Bare shaft question

[Rusty Green]

How far do y’all usually shoot a bare shaft to confirm your spine/tune not shooting paper just watching how your bare shaft flys down range?

 

[Holocene]

Depends on your skill level and use case. For all my bows, I bare shaft tune through paper to about 20 yards to get a starting tune and make sure all my arrows are behaving the same.

Then I'll shoot bare shafts to 20, 30 and 40 yards during the tuning process to watch how my form and the bow tune are acting. Dave Cousins said once he shoots bare shafts to 80! My form's not good enough to do that.

If you are shooting target archery, things are different. You can group tune a bow to shoot the best possible groups and then have a distinct tear in paper. That would mean your bare shaft is no longer with your field point group at say 30-40 yards. Are you going to return to a perfect bare shaft tune just to satisfy that intellectual itch? Or stay with the tune that shoots the best groups?

I'm not a pro -- but lately I've been interested in testing the difference between absolute best accuracy for field point groups vs. hunting accuracy with fixed and mechanical broadheads.

 

[Wrench]

As far as I shoot a fletched shaft.

 

[Rusty Green]

As far as I shoot a fletched shaft.

Right now I’m playing with form and brace height but I’ve had tail left flight/weak with point weight that should be stiff at 20 and 30 with the fletched arrows hitting right where I want them.

 

[Rusty Green]

I’m starting to think it’s how much I tilt my bow when shooting I’m trying to find the sweet spot.

 

[Wrench]

Your bares will be a touch stiff....unless you're compensated for fletch weight....but you're talking high level accuracy.

I think chasing spine before form is nailed is exactly how you go broke and crazy.

 

[Rusty Green]

Your bares will be a touch stiff....unless you're compensated for fletch weight....but you're talking high level accuracy.

I think chasing spine before form is nailed is exactly how you go broke and crazy.

Lol I could see how it can break you financially but I’m shooting the same 6 400 spine axis I bought when I got my riser I just put 100 grain inserts in and play with point weights while experimenting with form. Also I notice a big change when going from both eyes open to one eye open whats the consensus on that do most shoot both eyes open or one closed because it really seems to change my point of impact.

 

[Rob5589]

20 yds. I've skipped paper on the single string and have gone to bare shafts and slow motion video.

 

[jimh406]

Bare shaft tuning came into favor about 35 years ago or so in compounds. The main reason it was used is that cams were frequently out of time. Of course, the real fix was to time the cams, but many had no idea how to do that. You shouldn't have that issue with a traditional bow from a quality manufacturer.

Most pros that I shot against including those winning national field archery championships only considered it a starting point although most us could tell how tuned a bow was by simply shooting it a time or two at longer distances. There were even different philosophies if the arrow should be straight or angled high and left for a right hand shooter. Paper tuning is not a panacea.

I couldn't imagine it being that useful for a traditional setup unless you are for some reason going for maximum speed with a nontraditional rest. I think the answer you should be looking for are you following a reasonable chart for arrow spine and using the appropriate length feathers with reasonable twist with reasonable head that simulates a hunting setup. Lighter shafts are generally less forgiving.

If you are being "reasonable", spend your time validating if the accuracy is ok. If you are a beginner, you might need to have someone else with similar draw length shoot it with your arrows or put a pin site on for a bit. I bet your setup is totally fine unless you are again looking for maximum speed etc. Traditional setups shooting 160-200 fps is dead easy compared to pushing light arrows over 300 fps with a compound with cams.

Traditional setups are generally very forgiving. I think that's a reason why people love them so much.

Good luck.

 

[Rusty Green]

Bare shaft tuning came into favor about 35 years ago or so in compounds. The main reason it was used is that cams were frequently out of time. Of course, the real fix was to time the cams, but many had no idea how to do that. You shouldn't have that issue with a traditional bow from a quality manufacturer.

Most pros that I shot against including those winning national field archery championships only considered it a starting point although most us could tell how tuned a bow was by simply shooting it a time or two at longer distances. There were even different philosophies if the arrow should be straight or angled high and left for a right hand shooter. Paper tuning is not a panacea.

I couldn't imagine it being that useful for a traditional setup unless you are for some reason going for maximum speed with a nontraditional rest. I think the answer you should be looking for are you following a reasonable chart for arrow spine and using the appropriate length feathers with reasonable twist with reasonable head that simulates a hunting setup. Lighter shafts are generally less forgiving.

If you are being "reasonable", spend your time validating if the accuracy is ok. If you are a beginner, you might need to have someone else with similar draw length shoot it with your arrows or put a pin site on for a bit. I bet your setup is totally fine unless you are again looking for maximum speed etc. Traditional setups shooting 160-200 fps is dead easy compared to pushing light arrows over 300 fps with a compound with cams.

Traditional setups are generally very forgiving. I think that's a reason why people love them so much.

Good luck.

It’s just a hunting setup at I think 44# at my draw length 30inch 400 spines 4 fletch with 225 on the front seem to shot the best right now but if I shoot a bare shaft it starts to go tail left at 20 and really goes tail left at 30. But I’m still messing with my form I anchor index finger at the corner of my mouth and I think how much I tilt my bow are giving me my inconsistency’s. That and if I shoot one eye open or two.

 

[Wrench]

I think paper is a useful tool. As a trad guy you'll be experiencing greater levels of paradox than compound shooters. Knowing when/where the arrow recovers is important. Arrows not flying straight at impact is one of the most important things you strive for. If your setup doesn't correct soon enough, you need to pass those shots....the paper tells us that.

 

[oldgoat]

If you walked into rmsgear tomorrow, they would have you shoot bare shafts of various lengths and point weight etc and watch over your shoulder standing on a step ladder and watch how the arrow comes off the bow till you're shooting lasers. You can do the same with slow mo video. Once you get them flying straight, fletch one up and shoot a broadhead, broadhead flight is your final bench mark!

 

[jimh406]

It’s just a hunting setup at I think 44# at my draw length 30inch 400 spines 4 fletch with 225 on the front seem to shot the best right now but if I shoot a bare shaft it starts to go tail left at 20 and really goes tail left at 30. But I’m still messing with my form I anchor index finger at the corner of my mouth and I think how much I tilt my bow are giving me my inconsistency’s. That and if I shoot one eye open or two.

I'm assuming you mean 125 on the front. I think it will likely be difficult to keep the bare shaft straight at distance. I would continue to work on your form, and you can always revisit later if you find your groups don't shrink to a size that you want. At this point, I'd guess your form is the biggest variable.

 

[ledflight]

Slow mo video I think is the best tool for understanding how an arrow is leaving the bow. Most of us carry cameras in our pockets that can show us so much!

 

[GLB]

Bareshaft tuning is a good way to get a bow dialed in. You must make sure that your form is good, otherwise you will get false reports. I work out to 30 yards and mix it with a broad head and field tip arrow to make sure all 3 groups together. I do this over several days.

 

[Btaylor]

It’s just a hunting setup at I think 44# at my draw length 30inch 400 spines 4 fletch with 225 on the front seem to shot the best right now but if I shoot a bare shaft it starts to go tail left at 20 and really goes tail left at 30. But I’m still messing with my form I anchor index finger at the corner of my mouth and I think how much I tilt my bow are giving me my inconsistency’s. That and if I shoot one eye open or two.

If the 4 fletch you are shooting are vanes then that bareshaft could very easily be showing weak relative to a fletched shaft. Adding the fletch weight to the rear increases the dynamic spine of the arrow. Vanes would have a greater impact than feathers due to the weight difference between them and feathers.

 

[Holocene]

I must have missed somehow that the OP is a trad shooter?

All rules and conventions are different. Just to clarify everything I said above is what I do for compound bows. For trad bows (used to shoot one, it's been a while) I've got no idea what distance you want to shoot a BS!

 

[Rusty Green]

If the 4 fletch you are shooting are vanes then that bareshaft could very easily be showing weak relative to a fletched shaft. Adding the fletch weight to the rear increases the dynamic spine of the arrow. Vanes would have a greater impact than feathers due to the weight difference between them and feathers.

They’re 3 inch trad vanes and yes it tends to show weak with bare shaft

 

[Rusty Green]

I must have missed somehow that the OP is a trad shooter?

All rules and conventions are different. Just to clarify everything I said above is what I do for compound bows. For trad bows (used to shoot one, it's been a while) I've got no idea what distance you want to shoot a BS!

All good man did I make my post in the right place? Pretty new to the forum.

 

[Btaylor]

They’re 3 inch trad vanes and yes it tends to show weak with bare shaft

Yep sounds like the fletched setup is about right then. One thing you could do to test a little further if you have extra vanes or dont mind ordering a few more is to fletch one up in the 4 fetch config but cut off the vane right above the base so you get most of the tail weight with out the flight correction of the full vane. But to me it sounds like it is pretty well dialed if fletched flys good with 4 fletch vanes and the bare shaft is showing weak. This is assuming you are where you want to be with everything else related to the arrow setup like preferred head, total arrow weight, FOC.