“Backfire” hunting challenge fail

[H80Hunter]

I think some of these reactions remind me of the follow up video where the guys with the 40% hit rate to 600 are still confident on an animal to 600.

If I assume I’m as good as those guys, even a 40% hit rate to 600… Sure, I could convince myself that all my misses were just barely off, and because a milk jug is maybe a little smaller than vitals I’d be 80% on a deer. I’m not sure I want to shoot a live animal with even a mere 80% hit probability. Same thing, if you ask people if they can shoot a 5 shot 1 MOA group I bet 90% of hunters would say yes, but a MUCH lower percentage could actually deliver, and everyone thinks they’re the (literal and metaphorical) straight shooter who could back up the claim. Obviously, people can do it but I’d bet my life the gap between people who SAY or THINK they can, and people who actually CAN would be huge.

 

[Pharmseller]

My nephew impressed me last season. We had a small herd of Mule deer at 450 yards, undisturbed. No wind, plenty of time to lie down and take a shot. 7mm-08. Small buck, broadside.

Nope, he said. Outside of my range.

Edit to add, it was the last day of the hunt. That matters to some people.




P

 

[wind gypsy]

It was YouTube click bait. Had he been at anything other than a free undeveloped range, the regular old guys that are at every range making seriously small groups would have gladly taken his money right up front. Lol

ha. Those “regular old guys” with greater than 50% odds of keeping 5 in a row inside a 1” circle are the small minority in most established ranges I’ve been at. The one I’ve been a member of that is the primary range for Benchrest, f-class, high power, etc shooting in the state could be an outlier depending on who’s at the range on a given day.

 

[TaperPin]

ha. Those “regular old guys” with greater than 50% odds of keeping 5 in a row inside a 1” circle are the small minority in most established ranges I’ve been at. The one I’ve been a member of that is the primary range for Benchrest, f-class, high power, etc shooting in the state could be an outlier depending on who’s at the range on a given day.

You’re right - I should have described them better. They aren’t the average old guy, but the old retired accuracy dude that’s usually there with his buddies first thing to take advantage of the calm winds. At least in Wyoming every range seems to have it’s regulars. After work, there’s another batch of accuracy minded guys that would also take his money.

His video is probably a good cross section of average hunters. Lol

 

[Long Cut]

You’re right - I should have described them better. They aren’t the average old guy, but the old retired accuracy dude that’s usually there with his buddies first thing to take advantage of the calm winds. At least in Wyoming every range seems to have it’s regulars. After work, there’s another batch of accuracy minded guys that would also take his money.

His video is probably a good cross section of average hunters. Lol

You do realize they were at the range FOR 5 DAYS.
They had even advertised on Facebook, YouTube etc about the $1k bounty.

5 days. Several days the “best” shooting group was 4 MOA.

Watch the video.

 

[TaperPin]

You do realize they were at the range FOR 5 DAYS.
They had even advertised on Facebook, YouTube etc about the $1k bounty.

5 days. Several days the “best” shooting group was 4 MOA.

Watch the video.

I did watch the video, but the fact doesn’t change that many guys enjoy shooting small groups and are good at it - the serious shooters just aren’t on an informal range on BLM land. Do you ever watch the groups shot at an established range by serious shooters?

The video was like camping out at Home Depot for 5 days and calling the shoppers there the best wood workers in town. Lol

 

[Long Cut]

I did watch the video, but the fact doesn’t change that many guys enjoy shooting small groups and are good at it - the serious shooters just aren’t on an informal range on BLM land. Do you ever watch the groups shot at an established range by serious shooters?

The video was like camping out at Home Depot for 5 days and calling the shoppers there the best wood workers in town. Lol

You’re missing the point of the video, in my opinion.

You’re attempting to compare “serious shooters” as you stated above, to the average American gun owner and/or hunter.

The point of this video was to see what the average American gun owner and/or hunter could do with their equipment.

 

[TaperPin]

You’re missing the point of the video, in my opinion.

You’re attempting to compare “serious shooters” as you stated above, to the average American gun owner and/or hunter.

The point of this video was to see what the average American gun owner and/or hunter could do with their equipment.

I understand he purposely avoided a range with good shooters. It’s click bait.

 

[Macintosh]

A lot of people, me included, have their "long range" experience mainly from PRS and similar. For a casual shooter it's no big deal to miss on the first shot, see where you hit the dirt, and make a correction based off that to start making pretty decent hits. I've even been guilty of intentionally tossing a shot into the dirt so I can get a good wind/dope call for the rest of my shots. It's telling that at these events, targets where you cannot see impacts from a miss have a significantly lower hit rate, at least among the "everyday Joe" shooters I hang around with. I think its easy to lose sight to a large degree of how much making a measured correction from a miss helps to get on target for the rest of your shots, and lo and behold "I hit 80% on that target"...I think it's actually very easy to get a bit of a inflated sense of security from that. Question is, if you only had ONE shot at EVERY target would you still have the same overall hit rate? I dont think so in most cases. I bet if everyone's first shot on each target got triple points or something like that, it would result in a dramatic shift in the way people thought about this.

 

[RyanT26]

I understand he purposely avoided a range with good shooters. It’s click bait.

Or the guys the say “1/4 moa all day, if I do my part”. Are not even close to that.

 

[ElPollo]

I understand he purposely avoided a range with good shooters. It’s click bait.

Just how many ranges do you have in the town where you live? It’s rare for most places in the west to have more than one developed range within 50 miles or so. I’ve been to public and private ranges all over the west and have largely seen the kind of shooting he is.

 

[id_jon]

For a casual shooter it's no big deal to miss on the first shot, see where you hit the dirt, and make a correction based off that to start making pretty decent hits.

I don't think most truly casual shooters are spotting their first miss and making good corrections.

 

[Macintosh]

Yes, but not really what I meant. I should have said “casual
Prs shooter”, not “casual shooter”, two different animals. Place that person somewhere on the dunning kruger continuum between a “casual shooter” and someone who can hit every milk jug first shot at 600 yards. I still think theres plenty of these people and it's pretty normal as someone is gaining experience in longer range shooting to do so in a setting and with equipment (ie a 15-20lb prs rifle) that allows spotting shots pretty easily and making corrections pretty easily and losing sight of the importance of that, which I think all leads to a bit of a false sense of security with regard to FIRST ROUND hits. Call it the “dunning-kruger PRS first-peak”, thats what I'm talking about.

Anyway, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it. I don’t think it changes any of this conversation, I’m just pointing out that I think it’s an easy trap to fall into for a lot of people (me included), because I see it pretty frequently. And that the prs/nrl format, which is sort of the defacto gateway to long range shooting now for a ton of people, does not (or very rarely does) specifically reward first round hits at all.

 

[ID_Matt]

Yes, but not really what I meant. I should have said “casual
Prs shooter”, not “casual shooter”, two different animals. Place that person somewhere on the dunning kruger continuum between a “casual shooter” and someone who can hit every milk jug first shot at 600 yards. I still think theres plenty of these people and it's pretty normal as someone is gaining experience in longer range shooting to do so in a setting and with equipment (ie a 15-20lb prs rifle) that allows spotting shots pretty easily and making corrections pretty easily and losing sight of the importance of that, which I think all leads to a bit of a false sense of security with regard to FIRST ROUND hits. Call it the “dunning-kruger PRS first-peak”, thats what I'm talking about.

Anyway, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it. I don’t think it changes any of this conversation, I’m just pointing out that I think it’s an easy trap to fall into for a lot of people (me included), because I see it pretty frequently. And that the prs/nrl format, which is sort of the defacto gateway to long range shooting now for a ton of people, does not (or very rarely does) specifically reward first round hits at all.

First round impacts are worth double in NRL for all targets. That’s substantial, and specific.

 

[Pharmseller]

When hunting, most of the time the first shot is the only shot.

Evaluate accordingly.




P

 

[id_jon]

Yes, but not really what I meant. I should have said “casual
Prs shooter”, not “casual shooter”, two different animals. Place that person somewhere on the dunning kruger continuum between a “casual shooter” and someone who can hit every milk jug first shot at 600 yards. I still think theres plenty of these people and it's pretty normal as someone is gaining experience in longer range shooting to do so in a setting and with equipment (ie a 15-20lb prs rifle) that allows spotting shots pretty easily and making corrections pretty easily and losing sight of the importance of that, which I think all leads to a bit of a false sense of security with regard to FIRST ROUND hits. Call it the “dunning-kruger PRS first-peak”, thats what I'm talking about.

Anyway, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it. I don’t think it changes any of this conversation, I’m just pointing out that I think it’s an easy trap to fall into for a lot of people (me included), because I see it pretty frequently. And that the prs/nrl format, which is sort of the defacto gateway to long range shooting now for a ton of people, does not (or very rarely does) specifically reward first round hits at all.

I'm with you there. Most targets at a match are bigger than 1moa too.

 

[Macintosh]

First round impacts are worth double in NRL for all targets. That’s substantial, and specific.

Did not realize that. Yes, thats exactly what I think would help.

 

[ID_Matt]

Did not realize that. Yes, thats exactly what I think would help.

Definitely does. I do agree with you though. It’s fairly common in PRS to hear something like - hold center then adjust from there. First shot being your wind call

 

[adamm88]

I think the thing that it shows me is how accurate can factory ammo can be, i have a few guns that wont shoot 2 moa and it drives me nuts. My brother reloaded for me for a few guns and we easily got sub moa groups, now due to different circumstances he doesn’t load all my guns, i have some factory ammo thats dead nuts accurate and some that is a struggle. But all my shots are under 100 1.5 moa is probably fine


As far as the range i believe he is showing the average hunter, the milk jug challenge was people with LOTS of experience. Almost eveything on youtube is for $$$ so if your not expecting click bait dont go on youtube


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[ztc92]

Recently came across Eric Cortina doing a similar challenge and thought it was worth sharing. He made the target small (1 MOA at 500 yards) but then allowed unlimited time, any gear/position they preferred and any rifle set-up, many of which are 20+ pound rifles in calibers like 6-Dasher. All shooters claimed to be long range hunters and many reported feeling confident hunting animals well past 500 yards with their set-ups. I think the results speak for themselves and I can only imagine how much more difficult this would be in field conditions with improvised rests, no rear bag and using more typical 8-10 pound hunting rifles. A cold bore shot at 500 yards with a little wind is clearly not a sure thing.

Of note, in the second video, those shooters had the advantage of watching the first group and discussing wind calls prior to shooting it themselves, which did seem to help quite a bit.