cool tool. in the absence of the fancy tools it's best to learn how to pack a wound. 2 finger packing technique with some curlex/rolled gauze works well. only pack wounds with serious bleeding that can't be controlled by direct pressure.
Backcountry First Aid & Survival Kits, By Travis Bertrand
- Thread starter Justin Crossley
- Start date
cool tool. in the absence of the fancy tools it's best to learn how to pack a wound. 2 finger packing technique with some curlex/rolled gauze works well. only pack wounds with serious bleeding that can't be controlled by direct pressure.
Craigr5184
FNG
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2019
- Messages
- 15
Awesome! Thanks for the info!
BigSky
WKR
I too thought it was a great article. Now, onto the debate of carrying a tourniquet. Ounce counter or not, I don't see why any hunter, especially an archery hunter, would not carry one. I have been backpacking the mountains of Montana for 4 decades. I have been a soldier for over 3 decades and as a trained combat lifesaver. I always carry a tourniquet with me. It's one of those few items that when you need it, you really need it, very badly.
For you ounce counters, you always engage in the give and take when it comes to what you want to carry. I don't begrudge anybody their personal decisions on what to carry. It always seemed to me that the person most likely to need a tourniquet is a soldier in combat. Been there done that. Other than that, I would think (speculate?) that #2 on the list of people most likely to ever need a tourniquet, as unlikely as the occurrence may be, would be someone walking over logs, stumps and rocks, up and down slopes, in difficult terrain, while carrying a small rack of 4 or 5 long sticks with 2 to 4 scalpel blades attached to the end of each of them. Add to those sticks with scalpel blades the fact that we are also people who very regularly use very sharp knives and you have a group of statistically more likely to have a sharp object accident, in my opinion.
It's like concealed carrying my handgun. Statistics tell me that I will never need it. However, if the time should arise that I will need it, I will need it very badly. After carrying for almost 40 years, it is more comfortable than it was at first; but, it is still less convenient than not carrying. A tourniquet will never weigh enough to slow you down. I'm not trying to preach; rather, I'm just trying to put my own perspective on it. Be safe everyone and do what makes you feel comfortable.
For you ounce counters, you always engage in the give and take when it comes to what you want to carry. I don't begrudge anybody their personal decisions on what to carry. It always seemed to me that the person most likely to need a tourniquet is a soldier in combat. Been there done that. Other than that, I would think (speculate?) that #2 on the list of people most likely to ever need a tourniquet, as unlikely as the occurrence may be, would be someone walking over logs, stumps and rocks, up and down slopes, in difficult terrain, while carrying a small rack of 4 or 5 long sticks with 2 to 4 scalpel blades attached to the end of each of them. Add to those sticks with scalpel blades the fact that we are also people who very regularly use very sharp knives and you have a group of statistically more likely to have a sharp object accident, in my opinion.
It's like concealed carrying my handgun. Statistics tell me that I will never need it. However, if the time should arise that I will need it, I will need it very badly. After carrying for almost 40 years, it is more comfortable than it was at first; but, it is still less convenient than not carrying. A tourniquet will never weigh enough to slow you down. I'm not trying to preach; rather, I'm just trying to put my own perspective on it. Be safe everyone and do what makes you feel comfortable.
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2015
- Messages
- 853
Great article Travis and kudos to all the feedback from the other members. IMO you can’t educate yourself enough about this topic!
Just throwing in my $0.02 with all the TQ talk...
Consider it a general PSA, but for anybody looking to purchase medical, please avoid Amazon and the like -- only buy from a reputable source. Have heard of a couple buddies/acquaintances get bogus CAT/SOFTT-W TQs off of Amazon. My go-to suppliers are Dark Angel Medical (great hands-on training too!) and NAR (North American Rescue).
Additionally, don't forget that first aid items are FSA eligible -- so for those who always have cash left over at the end of the year, not a bad idea to pick up a few additional items for your pack/car/home.
Consider it a general PSA, but for anybody looking to purchase medical, please avoid Amazon and the like -- only buy from a reputable source. Have heard of a couple buddies/acquaintances get bogus CAT/SOFTT-W TQs off of Amazon. My go-to suppliers are Dark Angel Medical (great hands-on training too!) and NAR (North American Rescue).
Additionally, don't forget that first aid items are FSA eligible -- so for those who always have cash left over at the end of the year, not a bad idea to pick up a few additional items for your pack/car/home.
BigSky
WKR
I never thought of that. Thanks for the great idea.
For what it's worth, in a recent thread on a different board one member mentioned that he had some items denied, though they were for a full DARK Angel kit as well as a NAR Trunk kit. That being said, I have been able to purchase multiple DARK kits as well as individual components from DA and NAR through two different FSA processors without issue.
Someone fill me in, what’s FSA?
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- Feb 20, 2015
- Messages
- 853
Flexible spending account.
Travis and I are hopping on a podcast tomorrow (Sunday) night to talk about this..
What are your questions?
What are your questions?
Gunnersdad49
WKR
To revive this thread, I'll share a recent article of a hiker bleeding out with a belt tourniquet. https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570...4sjmtJXDUyP42XYKifheX-DFGosU6vWARPqciOBsw-Ob8
JES
FNG
Better to be over-prepared than under. Sad deal for the hiker in MI.
zog
Lil-Rokslider
Travis's article is great and I'm altering my kit based on his advice.
For less trained people like the rest of us I have to add a necessary item - I think every first aid kit should start with item No 1 - KNOWLEDGE, and a reference to remind you. A lot of first aid must be improvised without a kit from other stuff you have or can find.
In most cases there is time to gather your thoughts to come up with the best solution, and having a reference can give you confidence, calm you, and help make sure you don't forget something. Apps are great too but only if your phone is available, charged, and dry, and you're not wearing gloves!
Part of why I say this is experience as a responder (vol firefighter), which is far short of EMT or paramedic; it only means I have had more training and responses than the average person. Usually ff's job is to make the scene safe and do any heavy work so the paramedics can just medic. In rural counties ff's are often the first on scene, so we keep trained enough to respond until the professionals arrive, and a pocket reference is an absolute must. I read it aloud on the way to the scene and glance at it frequently while responding. When someone is injured and/or freaking out it can be very hard to keep your mind focused.
For less trained people like the rest of us I have to add a necessary item - I think every first aid kit should start with item No 1 - KNOWLEDGE, and a reference to remind you. A lot of first aid must be improvised without a kit from other stuff you have or can find.
In most cases there is time to gather your thoughts to come up with the best solution, and having a reference can give you confidence, calm you, and help make sure you don't forget something. Apps are great too but only if your phone is available, charged, and dry, and you're not wearing gloves!
Part of why I say this is experience as a responder (vol firefighter), which is far short of EMT or paramedic; it only means I have had more training and responses than the average person. Usually ff's job is to make the scene safe and do any heavy work so the paramedics can just medic. In rural counties ff's are often the first on scene, so we keep trained enough to respond until the professionals arrive, and a pocket reference is an absolute must. I read it aloud on the way to the scene and glance at it frequently while responding. When someone is injured and/or freaking out it can be very hard to keep your mind focused.
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I always enjoy these articles. Being in my 50s, many miles from the truck at timberline in CO, makes one consider the options of something were to happen. My kit has two basic objectives: a) stop major bleeding to buy time for hitting the button; b) stay on the mountain.
I carry the following:
The eye drops were added after cutting branches over my head and getting saw dust and debris from moss in my eyes. My eyes were matted shut the next morning.
The nasal spray is just a comfort thing. Keeps the impact of altitude and dry air to a minimum.
The emergency bivy is in case I can’t really move and have to wait. It can be really cold at timberline during rifle seasons.
I carry the following:
- InReach
- Israeli bandage
- Clot pack
- Aspirin
- Tylenol/Tylenol sinus
- A couple bandaids
- Neosporin
- Medicated eye drops
- Nasal Spray
- Clozex laceration closures
- Nitrile gloves
- Emergency bivy
The eye drops were added after cutting branches over my head and getting saw dust and debris from moss in my eyes. My eyes were matted shut the next morning.
The nasal spray is just a comfort thing. Keeps the impact of altitude and dry air to a minimum.
The emergency bivy is in case I can’t really move and have to wait. It can be really cold at timberline during rifle seasons.
I've noticed that individuals with no medical training carry Quick Clot. Most with medical training will agree that a roll of gauze or Israeli bandage is superior. I talked with a medic that did 3 tours when the stuff first came out and was given to the military to try out and the combat medics quickly realized that it was a joke.
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Mike7
WKR
I see this thread added to periodically with various anecdotal comments, so thought that I would add this bit of statistics also for people to consider when assessing risk and developing their own backcountry safety strategy and medical kit.
There are no doubt lots of cuts in the backcountry, but one thing that these statistics highlight is that people generally just aren't out dying from overwhelming hemorrhage while hiking/recreating in the backcountry away from cars, chainsaws, table saws, gang members, etc.
Although, bear attacks in the list below are at #11, so potentially significant hemorrhage plays a role in some of those deaths? It is probably pretty difficult to apply a tourniquet though with a grizzly standing on you and crushing your skull or punturing you lungs with its teeth.
2014 Backcountry Fatality Causes
Search:
There are no doubt lots of cuts in the backcountry, but one thing that these statistics highlight is that people generally just aren't out dying from overwhelming hemorrhage while hiking/recreating in the backcountry away from cars, chainsaws, table saws, gang members, etc.
Although, bear attacks in the list below are at #11, so potentially significant hemorrhage plays a role in some of those deaths? It is probably pretty difficult to apply a tourniquet though with a grizzly standing on you and crushing your skull or punturing you lungs with its teeth.
2014 Backcountry Fatality Causes
Search:
| Cause | Non-Park | National Park | State Park | Total | % of Total Deaths |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Fall | 39 | 21 | 23 | 83 | 39.15% |
| Avalanche | 24 | 7 | 1 | 32 | 15.09% |
| Drowning | 5 | 10 | 6 | 21 | 9.91% |
| Heart Attack | 10 | 7 | 4 | 21 | 9.91% |
| Lost | 8 | 2 | 2 | 12 | 5.66% |
| Unknown | 5 | 2 | 2 | 9 | 4.25% |
| Natural Causes | 2 | 2 | 3 | 7 | 3.30% |
| Hypothermia | 5 | 1 | 1 | 7 | 3.30% |
| Heat Stroke | 2 | 2 | 0 | 4 | 1.89% |
| Snowmobile Wreck | 3 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 1.42% |
| Bear Attack | 1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 0.94% |
| Falling Tree | 1 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 0.94% |
| Rock Fall | 1 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 0.94% |
| Allergic Reaction | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0.47% |
| Deyhdration | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0.47% |
| Homicide | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0.47% |
| Lightning | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0.47% |
| Rolling Log | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0.47% |
| Gastro Bleeding | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0.47% |
| Diabetes | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0.47% |
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