AZFG restricting Crossbows

[BBob]

Are crossbows really part of the "archery community"?

 

[CMP70306]

Every time the topic of crossbows in archery season comes up I am reminded what a bunch of narcissistic douchebags the majority of archers are.

You get to use a shit weapon in a prime season because the Game agencies figured out how to sell extra tags with low success rates to a group of people with a superiority complex that feel the need to boast to everyone how much better they are because they do it “the hard way”.

If you have a problem with crossbows while hunting with anything other than a stick, string, and wooden arrows you are nothing more than a hypocrite.

 

[canyonhunter47]

Every time the topic of crossbows in archery season comes up I am reminded what a bunch of narcissistic douchebags the majority of archers are.

You get to use a shit weapon in a prime season because the Game agencies figured out how to sell extra tags with low success rates to a group of people with a superiority complex that feel the need to boast to everyone how much better they are because they do it “the hard way”.

You’re right, compared to archery, crossbows are easy to learn and efficient. That means every old fart with a bum shoulder and a doctors note can drive around whacking dink muleys in the rut from their quads “ohh-tee-cee” pretty much guaranteed.

And then G&F will have to shut down what’s left of very few remaining opportunity hunts in the State. But for a few years it’ll be great!

If you have a problem with crossbows while hunting with anything other than a stick, string, and wooden arrows you are nothing more than a hypocrite.

You’re forgetting the loin cloth and moccasins

 

[SchwarzStock]

Are crossbows really part of the "archery community"?

Arizona is on a roll. We are trying to crawl back to some semblance of fair-chase hunting here. The genie is out of the bottle in some ways with the techno-compounds, though I think the argument presented that it is disingenuous to restrict crossbows but not modern compounds is completely fair. A 'reasonable' restriction would be no sights or mechanical release aids allowed with compounds, but the gadgeteers have so consumed the hunting world that that would be seen as draconian and will never gain any traction.

Most traditional challenges associated with archery have been eliminated via technology.

I believe the category "archery" includes crossbows. I also would argue compounds should be restricted as well because of the reduced strength required to hold them at full-draw. Most "bow hunters" want to consider themselves "elite hunters" and looking down on someone who chooses to use a different form plays into their need for recognition.

In AZ (Sierra Vista) I worked with a woman that took up competitive archery as a diversion from work. She was in the top rankings in the State within a year. Amazing how quickly she was able to master a compound using the gadgets. She was unable to shoot my bow, a 50lb draw Samic Hunter Long Bow. I must confess to not having shot it much since I returned to Germany 5 years ago. There is no hunting with a bow here and shooting in a shooting hall is quite boring. Everyone I see in the halls are shooting compounds with 25-30lb draws, they look at my bow as some sort of magnum or cannon.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

yes i hunt - used to live in Az and hunt there almost every year.

Compounds are very capable of 100 yards shots without a tripod. what’s your point?

The point is PEOPLE are not very capable out to 100 yards. To be proficient at 100 yards with a bow takes dedication and effort. And even with dedication and tons of practice the vast majority still will not be proficient with a bow at 100 yards. Bows have not advanced to the point they can be easily shot accurately out to 100 yards.

Give them a crossbow and that all changes. They can spend an hour or two at a range shooting off a bench and have that scoped crossbow consistently hitting the bullseye at 100 yards.

Crossbows clearly have advanced to the point that they can no longer be considered fair chase during a season (archery) meant for more primitive equipment. Archery seasons are longer than rifle seasons for a reason. You want to use a crossbow use it during rifle season or push for a shortened season of a couple weeks or maybe 1 month for crossbow.

In WI people can use crossbows during reg archery no handicap needed since 2017. The deer killed by crossbow users has far exceeded those killed by bowhunters for years now. So far this year 60,000 deer have been killed by crossbowers to 39,000 by bowhunters. They clearly have an unfair advantage over a guy with a bow. It’s time the regulations catch up to the advancements in crossbow technology in all states. Nice to see states like AZ getting after it.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

Every time the topic of crossbows in archery season comes up I am reminded what a bunch of narcissistic douchebags the majority of archers are.

You get to use a shit weapon in a prime season because the Game agencies figured out how to sell extra tags with low success rates to a group of people with a superiority complex that feel the need to boast to everyone how much better they are because they do it “the hard way”.

If you have a problem with crossbows while hunting with anything other than a stick, string, and wooden arrows you are nothing more than a hypocrite.

Be honest with yourself when i ask you this question. Is it easier to consistently hit the bullseye at 50+ yards with a bow or a crossbow? If you’re an honest person you know the answer to this.

Then i’ll ask why you feel after admitting it’s much easier with a crossbow that bowhunters are douchebags when they ask that archery season be restricted to the more primitive or difficult to use equipment those extended seasons were designed for?

 

[Szwampdonkey]

AZ (all states} should ban compounds, sights, mechanical releases, carbon arrows etc. Nothing but long bows, perhaps a recurve.....

I watched the whole video. 95% of this video they were shooting pretty average at 30-50 yards. He put a single group down range at 100 yards towards the end where he proceeded to put the entire group 10” low barely hitting the intended target and nowhere near the bullseye or what could be considered a kill shot.

I’d bet you a cool grand i could buy crossbow and shoot better than the guy and girl in this video in under an hour from taking it out of the box.

Thanks for posting a video highlighting the need for crossbow restrictions.

 

[Fatcamp]

Agreed, but there are far more than you think. I shot as a prostaffer for 20 plus years , guys were doing it in the 80's out here. I have seen coues killed at that range first hand. I don't agree with it anymore than shooting a elk at a 1000 but it happens.

Just because people are throwing hail Mary shots at 100 yards doesn't mean they can hit anything.

I don't remember a single person in all the years of the Cold Bow Challenge choosing 100 as their distance, much less actually hitting it.

Now I did shoot next to some slob with a brand new Raven stacking shots in an 8" paper plate at 60 yards the day he bought it. Guarantee if he was capable of that I'm days away from doing the same at 100.

 

[ethan]

In my opinion... using crossbows in archery season and someone who is disabled using a crossbow are two different things. With the exception of being disabled, crossbows don't belong in archery season. If you want to hunt with a crossbow and choose to do so in a general weapons season, unit, etc.... good on you. But during bow season....hunt with a bow. The analogy of using a helicopter to get up a mountain when you're to old to hike it is spot on. At what point do we say enough is enough? Technology is increasing harvest rates drastically across the country and is beginning to reduce opportunities. When do we say enough is enough and stop pushing the line further and further in our favor?
It's simple math. If there is a 10% success rate and game departments decide they need to take a hundred animals out of particular herd then 100 tags get issued. If the success rate goes up to 20%, the tags allotted go down. So should 100 people play by the existing rules, or do we keep making it easier and easier and allow fewer and people opportunities... while bashing folks that want the opportunities for being "divisive in the hunting community"?
Bow seasons came into existence because bow hunting is harder.... it's suppose to be harder... it isn't like there aren't other opportunities to hunt with other weapons. Keep making it easier and easier and pretty soon there will be no more bow seasons.

 

[98XJRC]

I see this as a trend moving forward in other states. I don't believe most people have any issue with the crossbows being used to take game, the issue lies in when it's allowed to be used. The argument between compounds and crossbows being similar is utterly ridiculous and anyone who looks at it with a clear lens can see the differences. Any hunter who uses a compound or stick bow for longer shots has practiced all year to hone their skill. A crossbow user is typically only practicing to ensure their sight isn't off.

I understand the argument from the stick bow side when even looking at a compound as well. As a compound hunter I can take that 40-60 yard shot that would be out of range for anyone using a stick bow. I would be curious how the harvest percentage data was when compounds became more heavily used vs the stick bows.

 

[Phaseolus]

Ever think that someone shoulder damage is so bad that they cannot shoot a rifle much less a bow.

Labeled? looks like you already are

You could always use your crossbow during rifle season.

 

[Article 4]

You could always use your crossbow during rifle season.

Its not me, I have a couple of combat wounded friends that need it.

Or do what is right, for a small # of ppl, and allow an arrow based weapon during arrow season.

 

[CMP70306]

Be honest with yourself when i ask you this question. Is it easier to consistently hit the bullseye at 50+ yards with a bow or a crossbow? If you’re an honest person you know the answer to this.

Then i’ll ask why you feel after admitting it’s much easier with a crossbow that bowhunters are douchebags when they ask that archery season be restricted to the more primitive or difficult to use equipment those extended seasons were designed for?

To the same point does a modern compound with adjustable sights, significant let off and 300+ fps velocities not provide a significant technological advantage over a recurve or long bow? When the majority of these archery seasons were created archery was limited to longbows, recurves and maybe some early versions of compounds with a slight let off and some basic screw pins for sights.

At the time 30 yards was considered the max distance for that type of equipment and you could only draw the bow for a very short period of time without significant strength. What’s a modern compound capable of in a western setting 60, 70 yards with 80%+ let off you can hold for minutes at a time? Why is it fine to accept that level of range and shootability increase but not the ease of shooting that crossbows provide?

Are crossbows easier to shoot and as a result more accurate? Sure that’s the whole point, if they were as hard to shoot as a recurve then nobody would use them as they would be significantly heavier with no benefit and we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

I don’t see the majority of archery hunters advocating we drop all the way back down to the longbows and recurves the seasons were created around, just back to the highly shootable modern compounds they are confident with and shoot well.

Do we not owe it to the game we hunt to make the most accurate and ethical shots? If so then why are archery hunters fine with using equipment that is less accurate, less effective and as a result less ethical in a self serving interest to inflate tag numbers by lowering success rates yet not so restrictive that it also limits their own personal chance of success?

 

[canyonhunter47]

Do we not owe it to the game we hunt to make the most accurate and ethical shots? If so then why are archery hunters fine with using equipment that is less accurate, less effective and as a result less ethical in a self serving interest to inflate tag numbers by lowering success rates yet not so restrictive that it also limits their own personal chance of success?

Why stop at crossbows? By that logic rifles are the only ethical choice since the wounding effects they create aren’t limited to the 1-2 inch diameter cutting surface of a broadhead

 

[Fatcamp]

Given the option of stickbow or crossbow I would take limiting archery to stick bow every time.

 

[307]

Be honest with yourself when i ask you this question. Is it easier to consistently hit the bullseye at 50+ yards with a bow or a crossbow? If you’re an honest person you know the answer to this.

Off a rest or bench, crossbow.

Off hand, vertical bow.

I've done this test many times, though n=1.

Finding or making a rest for a crossbow in the field is a huge pain in the ass compared to a rifle due to the horizontal expansion of the bow on the shot. A tripod is pretty much the only field solution for a rest which is a bit slow and somewhat difficult at archery range from the animals to set up and get into position without being busted.

People are delusional about how effective they can be with a crossbow hunting the west. Sitting in a blind or stand with a tripod or known rest is probably a different story though, which makes sense why so many deer in the east are taken with crossbows.

 

[KHNC]

If someone can walk , run and use their legs, fingers and toes, how are they 100% disabled?? BTW, I am a Vet as well. But I disagree with a LOT of the "100%" disabled ratings I have seen. Please enlighten me.

Perhaps you buy a permit and have it attached the the crossbow. look you aren’t going to police every little thing. My sense is the # of crossbow apps will drop 80-90% just requiring a physician note

Vets with disabilities go through the same process. we have to show a disability letter stating 100% rating. why not others?

So are you against folks with disabilities hunting on archery season?

 

[307]

If someone can walk , run and use their legs, fingers and toes, how are they 100% disabled?? BTW, I am a Vet as well. But I disagree with a LOT of the "100%" disabled ratings I have seen. Please enlighten me.

Military "disability" has a very different meaning than disability in the civilian world.

It's confusing

 

[Szwampdonkey]

Its not me, I have a couple of combat wounded friends that need it.

Or do what is right, for a small # of ppl, and allow an arrow based weapon during arrow season.

Crossbows don’t use arrows they use bolts. So i guess this discussion is now over.

 

[Scoot]

"Cross gun", there's a smug anti-crossbow term I haven't heard in years. Yes lets divide the archery community, divide and conquer.

This does nothing to divide the archery community- xbows aren't part of the archery community in the first place. Crossbows aren't bows. Not sure why that's difficult for some people to understand.