AZ Desert Sheep

[GurrCentral]

Hey all, does anyone have a personal run-down on desert sheep in AZ? Basically, I am looking at putting in and am just beginning the research. I figure this is one of the best places to get great info from people who have been there and done that, or just have opinions about the topic.
Any recommendations on a non-resident for top units to put on for? A little background, I am a non-resident with 0 points for AZ. This will be the first time I am putting in for AZ. I am looking for a unit that has quality rams, as I have taken a California ram in WA that scored in the high 170's. Not trying to brag, but want to make the point of I am looking to put in for a unit that has the potential of a mature ram. Obviously, I am way behind on the points, but you have to start somewhere. Or is it just p.....in the wind, and I should purchase points? I know it is going to be a very LONG time until I get anywhere close to points paying off, and really may never make it to the max points category as I am 28. Thank you, and good luck to all drawing tags this year!

 

[wapitibob]

I would investigate how many hunts are actually available in the 1-2 pass. It will be many decades before you're in a max pool.

 

[idig4au]

I hate to burst your bubble, but unless you have max points or can get lucky and draw a tag in the random draw, you will likely never draw a desert tag in AZ. There are literally thousands ahead of you that have been building points and max points is what it takes to draw the best units. I personally wouldn't waste my money on trying to build points in AZ for sheep. But if you are lucky, maybe you can get the golden BB and win a random tag in the open draw.....

 

[spdcrazy]

It is a very hard hunt to draw i know, but.... as the AZ lottery says, "you can't win if you don't play". with that said, i know personally 3-5 ppl that have yet to be drawn for it in 10+ years.

then again its not easy getting drawn for 12b muley, and i did two years running. so moral of my story, its worth a shot if you have the money!

 

[shaun]

Good part is AZ only charges you $15 to apply for sheep

 

[bigeasygator]

Good part is AZ only charges you $15 to apply for sheep

That's not entirely true...you need to pay $150 on a license before you can apply for anything...then each species is only $15. If you're going to apply it makes sense to apply for everything (although you've already missed elk and antelope). If you want to hunt any AZ sheep anytime soon I think you're going to need to settle on a ram that isn't trophy caliber. The way the draw works in AZ is that 20% of the total number of tags goes to the max point pool (there were 185 max point applicants last year), then the rest go to the random draw, so it can be done. A few tidbits looking at the Huntin' Fool information...

- of the 21 sheep units, 10 are closed to non-residents due to the tag allocation.
- it looks like of the 54 tags that I had info on, 6 went to NRs.
- the units with the best odds have a 2-3% chance of getting drawn (I believe this is without respect to bonus points, which will drive that number lower)
- the units with the worst odds are well below 1%

My advice...it's cool to want to research units but odds are that you aren't going to draw for decades, if ever. I recommend putting a top unit as your first choice and something in less demand potentially as your second (AZ takes a look at both choices). For me, I'd just be happy to go on a sheep hunt. It'd be great to kill a book ram, but it would also be great to just go hunt sheep!

 

[shaun]

That's not entirely true...you need to pay $150 on a license before you can apply for anything...then each species is only $15. If you're going to apply it makes sense to apply for everything (although you've already missed elk and antelope). If you want to hunt any AZ sheep anytime soon I think you're going to need to settle on a ram that isn't trophy caliber. The way the draw works in AZ is that 20% of the total number of tags goes to the max point pool (there were 185 max point applicants last year), then the rest go to the random draw, so it can be done. A few tidbits looking at the Huntin' Fool information...

- of the 21 sheep units, 10 are closed to non-residents due to the tag allocation.
- it looks like of the 54 tags that I had info on, 6 went to NRs.
- the units with the best odds have a 2-3% chance of getting drawn (I believe this is without respect to bonus points, which will drive that number lower)
- the units with the worst odds are well below 1%

My advice...it's cool to want to research units but odds are that you aren't going to draw for decades, if ever. I recommend putting a top unit as your first choice and something in less demand potentially as your second (AZ takes a look at both choices). For me, I'd just be happy to go on a sheep hunt. It'd be great to kill a book ram, but it would also be great to just go hunt sheep!

It is $160 this year. I don't count licence onto applied cost since it covers everything

 

[bigeasygator]

It is $160 this year. I don't count license onto applied cost since it covers everything

I hear ya...just wanted to make sure that it was clear it doesn't just cost $15 to apply for sheep alone. If that's the only species you're going to apply for it's gonna cost you $175, which is why it makes sense to apply for every species in AZ as the incremental costs are so cheap.

 

[GurrCentral]

I hate to burst your bubble, but unless you have max points or can get lucky and draw a tag in the random draw, you will likely never draw a desert tag in AZ. There are literally thousands ahead of you that have been building points and max points is what it takes to draw the best units. I personally wouldn't waste my money on trying to build points in AZ for sheep. But if you are lucky, maybe you can get the golden BB and win a random tag in the open draw.....

When you mention random draw, are you talking about after the 20% of resident or max point pool tags are given out? thanks!

 

[Az Hunter]

I am an Arizona resident. I have 21 bonus points. I think maximum is around 26. If you are putting in for other species( Az has excellent elk and antelope) then go ahead and put in for sheep otherwise you are just throwing away your money

 

[GurrCentral]

I am an Arizona resident. I have 21 bonus points. I think maximum is around 26. If you are putting in for other species( Az has excellent elk and antelope) then go ahead and put in for sheep otherwise you are just throwing away your money

That's what I was thinking, thanks! Never hurts to purchase a raffle ticket or two...lol

 

[mullmann]

I found this article really helpful and informative. It was for the 2013 sheep season, but the I formation explains how non res have good odds for the draw.

http://www.azdesertsheepguides.com/EBJ77_80-83.pdf

 

[bigeasygator]

I found this article really helpful and informative. It was for the 2013 sheep season, but the I formation explains how non res have good odds for the draw.

http://www.azdesertsheepguides.com/EBJ77_80-83.pdf

I came to a slightly different conclusion than you after reading that. To me it seems like in general the bonus pass and the non-resident cap make it extremely difficult to draw tags and at best you are looking at odds that are less than 1% overall (and 0% for many units unless you have max points). Out of curiosity, what led you to the conclusion that non-resident's have good odds for the draw?

 

[mullmann]

Bigeasygator, any unit that offers one tag has to offer a second for non resident and any unit that offer 5 tags dedicates two for non residents. The reason I said non residents have better odds is because less non residents apply than residents. Example: if there was one hunt unit available with two licenses and there were 2000 resident apps and 1000 non res apps the non res has better odds. That's how I took it. I could be way off.

 

[bigeasygator]

Bigeasygator, any unit that offers one tag has to offer a second for non resident and any unit that offer 5 tags dedicates two for non residents. The reason I said non residents have better odds is because less non residents apply than residents. Example: if there was one hunt unit available with two licenses and there were 2000 resident apps and 1000 non res apps the non res has better odds.

That's not the way the AZ draw works. The sheep draw for non-residents is capped at 9 total tags period, regardless of unit. A unit needs at least two tags available for a non-resident to be considered for one of them (doesn't mean it goes to a NR). For a unit to give out two tags to NR, it needs five tags total (again no guarantee a NR will get one of those two tags.

The max point pass takes up 20% of the tags total (19 total tags out of the 95 total tags allocated). Depending on how many NR draw in the max point pass, that will come out of the 9 total tags available to NRs. Generally there are tags leftover because most of the max point holders focus on premier units, but even in 2012 the max point pass eliminated 8 units from being drawn in the random pool. At the end of the day, you're still competing with residents in the various units that you will apply for (in other words, a unit could offer three tags and all three could go to residents).

Also keep in mind that those draw odds are not with respect to bonus points. Seeing as there are a few thousand folks with 10 points or more applying it could really impact your odds depending on which units you apply for. I think the advice at the end of that link is spot on if you want to draw a tag, and some units don't get as many applicants. It's possible to draw a tag in some of the units, but I still wouldn't call the odds good for non-residents!

 

[mullmann]

I did not remember seeing the part about the non resident 10% cap.

 

[Matt W.]

I'm heading to the Phoenix area for a conference this spring. Anywhere close a guy can go to view desert sheep?