Autotrickler alternative?

[jeremy.b]

If you are inclined to go down the DIY rabbit hole it HAS been done: https://blog.ammolytics.com/2019-04-30/diy-smart-trickler.html

 

[wind gypsy]

I'm posting mostly to help folks decide between upgrading to an autotrickler or not. I have used a chargemaster 1500 for the past 6 years or so, no real functional issues with the chargemaster, except static electricity. But I have been curious about the accuracy of the chargemaster because of some reviews and comments made on podcasts. I wanted to test the accuracy of the chargemaster for my own knowledge before upgrading. I first purchased a fx120 balance only, no autotrickler. I ran a test of 50 powder throws with the charge master to see the accuracy of the scale. I used N565 and a target charge weight of 57.0gr, which is a realistic load for my 6.5 PRC. Below are the results of the 50 powder throws. NOTE: The chargemaster overthrew several charges, (5+, I don’t remember), I did not keep record of these charges and tossed them back into the hopper. The chargemaster display read '57.0' for all charges in the data below.

View attachment 443178

The autotrickler throws charges to within +/- (0.02gr), or around +/-(1) kernel of powder. 21/50 test charges were within the tolerance of the Autotrickler setup.

OP - I've had the V4 for a couple weeks now, I believe if you had a spot on a shelf or in a cupboard to put the V4 setup when you aren't using it, that you would be happy with it.

Very interesting, especially the 57.98 charge!

I have probably only checked 25 charges from my Chargemaster 1500 on my fx120 and had much less variance than that. I dont remember exact details beyond thinking "fat chance i can shoot the difference between this and the Fx120 charges". But I still appreciate the accuracy/speed from my v3 AT.

 

[Dos Perros]

I'm posting mostly to help folks decide between upgrading to an autotrickler or not. I have used a chargemaster 1500 for the past 6 years or so, no real functional issues with the chargemaster, except static electricity. But I have been curious about the accuracy of the chargemaster because of some reviews and comments made on podcasts. I wanted to test the accuracy of the chargemaster for my own knowledge before upgrading. I first purchased a fx120 balance only, no autotrickler. I ran a test of 50 powder throws with the charge master to see the accuracy of the scale. I used N565 and a target charge weight of 57.0gr, which is a realistic load for my 6.5 PRC. Below are the results of the 50 powder throws. NOTE: The chargemaster overthrew several charges, (5+, I don’t remember), I did not keep record of these charges and tossed them back into the hopper. The chargemaster display read '57.0' for all charges in the data below.

View attachment 443178

The autotrickler throws charges to within +/- (0.02gr), or around +/-(1) kernel of powder. 21/50 test charges were within the tolerance of the Autotrickler setup.

OP - I've had the V4 for a couple weeks now, I believe if you had a spot on a shelf or in a cupboard to put the V4 setup when you aren't using it, that you would be happy with it.

Have you ever done this kind of statistical analysis on a manual powder measure?

 

[rayporter]

i load at the match with a lot of other shooters and the CM is pretty popular. i dont warm my
cm up and when i put my 30 grain check wt on the pan it reads 30 gr. over the course of a days loading i set the check wt on every 40 charges and it has never varied.

wind and outside influences will affect the CM - you cant touch the table when it is dispensing. one shooter sent his cm back 3 times complaining of inaccuracy but when i showed him it worked fine if he did not touch table he was amazed. many of us use battery power to run the cm.
some shooters are very adamant the battery helps but i cant tell a difference..

i do see powder jump in the hopper when shots are fired on the line and this causes over throws. the v4 would be subject to the same problem.

i see several v3 or v4 autos at every match and their speed is impressive. most guys loading with a v4 are in trailers.

 

[Chanimal]

Very interesting, especially the 57.98 charge!

I have probably only checked 25 charges from my Chargemaster 1500 on my fx120 and had much less variance than that. I dont remember exact details beyond thinking "fat chance i can shoot the difference between this and the Fx120 charges". But I still appreciate the accuracy/speed from my v3 AT.

That was definitely the outlier! It would take running a much larger data set to see if this happens again. Before I got my V4 I was throwing charges on my charge master then adding or subtracting powder to make weight. Most were within 2-8 kernels of powder. I haven’t had the 1.0gr difference repeat. Most charges were within +/-0.1gr. I probably can’t shoot the difference either, but I like have the more accurate information.

 

[Chanimal]

Have you ever done this kind of statistical analysis on a manual powder measure?

No I haven’t.

 

[wind gypsy]

Have you ever done this kind of statistical analysis on a manual powder measure?

Good question. I couldn't consistently get same results on the cheap balance beam scales i tried and felt just as confident in the CM but never drilled into what operator error might be able to be cleaned up.

 

[BBob]

Have you ever done this kind of statistical analysis on a manual powder measure?

Many have many times over the years. A search on Benchrest Central and or Accurate Shooter should bring results. Basically for long range work (and not acceptable for many in short range) a manual like a Harrell's or Jones by themselves are not accurate enough to be competitive.

https://www.rokslide.com/forums/attachments/how-accurately-do-i-need-to-measure-powder-pdf.443357/

 

[Dos Perros]

Many have many times over the years. A search on Benchrest Central and or Accurate Shooter should bring results. Basically for long range work (and not acceptable for many in short range) a manual like a Harrell's or Jones by themselves are not accurate enough to be competitive.

https://www.rokslide.com/forums/attachments/how-accurately-do-i-need-to-measure-powder-pdf.443357/

Interesting read. I was asking because: the one rifle I have done the most precision work with is a Tikka Varmint in 223. Lapua brass, neck turned, sorted, the whole deal. It likes 25.0 grains of Varget. But, I think I'd get pretty tight groups with anything between 29.4 and 25.1 grains. Good enough for me at least. I've done the manual throw and then trickle up to 25.0 thing, and I hate it, and the practical part of me says I should just do manual throws and allow myself to accept it's good enough.

 

[rayporter]

for years i have used both a harrels and a jones powder measure. i can sit at home and practice for hours and get pretty close to +or-.1 when throwing around 30 gr. but it does not take much down time from practice to go to +or-.3

again this is at home under great conditions. on the firing line shots will shake the measure and cause much variance. +or-.3 was common.

one summer i weighed every charge i threw. i would throw and weigh and every one went into the case, i did not cull any. the number of times that there was a low charge followed by a high charge was surprising. lets say i was shooting for 29.5 and i threw a 29.2. quite often a 29.8 or more would follow.

that summer i placed in three big shoots but the huge spreads had me getting a chargemaster the next year.

 

[BBob]

for years i have used both a harrels and a jones powder measure. i can sit at home and practice for hours and get pretty close to +or-.1 when throwing around 30 gr. but it does not take much down time from practice to go to +or-.3

Same, I have a Jones but haven’t used it in years. There’s a well known short range BR shooter here in AZ that still throws with a chamber type measure. He wins a lot. His loading setup is amongst the simplest you’ll see. He rarely cleans primer pockets and I don’t believe he even brushes necks.

But, I think I'd get pretty tight groups with anything between 29.4 and 25.1 grains.

That’s the goal, finding a wide tuning window. Most long range shooters run ladders to try to identify those windows and time from there. Short range BR generally load at the match so they can tune as they go, most long range do not so it’s even more important to find those windows.

 

[mfllood3800]

I will take an unpopular counter opinion.

Although I have no doubt AT is great, one may ask what does it buy you (outside of piece of mind and knowing you have the best)?

I’ve watched this a few times and think this comparison is done pretty well. He doesn’t say the CM lite is better, he just says it is pretty darn good and the results “May”
Not justify the 3-4x the price AT.

I’ll have an AT some day. But happy with my 2x CM lites now.

It’s all about significant figures(from science)…..at some point overly precise doesn’t matter AS much.

I have had both of these and the CM lite is terrible. I have turned that thing off accidently 20 times. The power button is located in the worst possible location. I would have over charges 40% of time with big kernels like N570 and realistically about 20% with H4350. The CM lite only rain for a brief run and there is a reason why.

 

[Tahoe1305]

I have had both of these and the CM lite is terrible. I have turned that thing off accidently 20 times. The power button is located in the worst possible location. I would have over charges 40% of time with big kernels like N570 and realistically about 20% with H4350. The CM lite only rain for a brief run and there is a reason why.

Well your the first I’ve heard complain. And between my group of reloaders we have 5 total and no issues.

I’ve had 4 overthrows in probably 500 or so charges. To each their own though.

Lots of reviews online (including the one linked above) tend to think otherwise too. Always possible you got a bad unit.

 

[mfllood3800]

Well your the first I’ve heard complain. And between my group of reloaders we have 5 total and no issues.

I’ve had 4 overthrows in probably 500 or so charges. To each their own though.

Lots of reviews online (including the one linked above) tend to think otherwise too. Always possible you got a bad unit.

It just couldn't trickle certain powders efficiently at all. Even with the straw and a 3d printed cone and all them lil tricks. It handled 4350 & H1000 ok. It hated all the N500 series powders. It like 8133 and Retumbo as well. But sometimes it would take 6 days to trickle that last kernel and for me that's a huge deal breaker. I have the MatchMaster and it is good with all powders across the board but has the same issue at times with slow trickling that last kernel. Glad everyone else is doing fine with theirs.

 

[Lawnboi]

20% overthrows with mid size extruded powders is my experience with the CM lite and is the bulk of my complaints.

Xbr or ball powders is more like 2% and tolerable. I’ll hang onto the cm lite for loading 223, actually wouldn’t mind another to use both at the same time when it comes time to pump out 223

 

[BucksNDucks]

Loading for my 300 RUM with N570 can get quite frustrating with my AT V3
So today, after the help of some others, I took one of my wife’s measuring scooper things.
I needed a load at 94.6. I used the scooper and it was perfect and topped off at 93.0. I then disabled the the Auto Throw and let the tricker finish it off.
Maybe a little slower but but everything was spot on. N570 can get you to maybe over think some with (1) kernel coming out at .08gn.
I always round up if needed and never stay below the projected

 

[MikeDeltaFoxtrot]

Interesting thread. I have been using the Hornady LnL trickler for about 8 years. It occasionally overthrows but it is rare, and I have found the charge weights to be very accurate when checked against a manual scale. I usually set the speed to slow, and that solves most issues.

Apparently my unit has been discontinued, so when it fails, I guess I'll have to do something different. The RCBS rig seems to be the most popular, but I had a bad experience with and RCBS case tumbler, and I am not sure of their quality as a result.

 

[Lawnboi]

Finally here and together. I’m sure they will start shipping faster now that they are over the initial wave.

I’m also in line for a super trickler. I might just keep them both whenever that one shows up.

 

[Schism]

Finally here and together. I’m sure they will start shipping faster now that they are over the initial wave.

I’m also in line for a super trickler. I might just keep them both whenever that one shows up.


View attachment 471361

Please provide an update after you use the AT a bit. I'd love to have one but am on the fence about spending that kind of money to potentially have some of the issues I've read on other sites. I'd primarily be using stick powders such as H4350 and H1000.

 

[Lawnboi]

Please provide an update after you use the AT a bit. I'd love to have one but am on the fence about spending that kind of money to potentially have some of the issues I've read on other sites. I'd primarily be using stick powders such as H4350 and H1000.

Will do. I read it all too, that said the scale is worth the money for sure. If I don’t like the auto trickler portion it still has an awsome scale. So far with Xbr it’s been great, but then about any scale is great with Xbr.

As said before you can preorder a V4 for no money down if you wish, I’d get on that list.

Super trickler pre order is $150.