Arrow Spine Arrow Question

[Kade94]

Good afternoon,
I’m trying to get me a good whitetail setup. I know this will be a very opinionated topic. However, my draw length is 26 inches at 75lbs pounds. I can also drop to 70lbs and go up to 82lbs. My arrows will be cut to 25.5 to 26 inches. I know I need to pick a broadhead weight however I’m wanting to shoot from 200gr to 275gr upfront( including insert and head). I currently have 300 spine Black Eagle Carnivores. However I’m thinking about doing something different. What spine would you suggest? What arrows and what arrow weight? What broadheads? I know this is very opinionated and I can buy 300 and 250 spine arrows and just try it but I’d like to see if anyone did something similar to this setup.

 

[stanginthe11s]

first, you dont need anything close to what you have for any whitetail but besides that you need to be specific on what you really want to acomplish and what your setup is. will you be shooting 70 lbs? 80? what do you want and whats comfortable for you?

 

[Avgjoe77]

I would build a couple of each (300 and 250 spine) and see which shoots the best. I went with Gold Tip arrows just because I could use one of their inserts and add weight with their FACT system to adjust the upfront weight. I wanted to stick with a standard 100 or 125 grain broadhead for simplicity/availability/cost reasons.
I think Black Eagle has a similar system for adjusting insert weight.

 

[OR Archer]

I wouldn’t attempt to try and put that much weight up front on an arrow that short. I’ve tuned some setups like that and the majority of them were a PIA to tune. If I were you with your specs I’d use a 340 with about 150gr total up front. Cut to 26” it’ll be plenty stiff even at 75#. You’ll get an arrow that’ll be much easier to tune and one with better trajectory.

 

[Gosh darn ram]

Hey not to hijack the thread I'm new to this site and can't post anything I apologize in advance I'm curious about my bow/arrow setup this is what I have and I intend to shoot blackbear and white tail deer this year
Hoyt axius alpha 70 lbs
26.5in draw
Arrows are I have 3 types 1.maxima red 250 spine 2.maxima red sd I believe 350 spine and 3.black eagle rampage 250 spine arrows all cut to 27in with nocturnal lighted knocks
I'll be shooting the iron will wide 125grain fixed blades but I have some rage hypodermic 100g and some iron will s100 what do you all recommend I've only shot the maxima 250 spine threw the bow and my groups where decent but not the best
Please feel free for recommendations it would help alot thank you all in advance

 

[Billy Goat]

Hey not to hijack the thread I'm new to this site and can't post anything I apologize in advance I'm curious about my bow/arrow setup this is what I have and I intend to shoot blackbear and white tail deer this year
Hoyt axius alpha 70 lbs
26.5in draw
Arrows are I have 3 types 1.maxima red 250 spine 2.maxima red sd I believe 350 spine and 3.black eagle rampage 250 spine arrows all cut to 27in with nocturnal lighted knocks
I'll be shooting the iron will wide 125grain fixed blades but I have some rage hypodermic 100g and some iron will s100 what do you all recommend I've only shot the maxima 250 spine threw the bow and my groups where decent but not the best
Please feel free for recommendations it would help alot thank you all in advance

Carbon express doesn't correlate their numbers to the spine. A 250 I believe is 400 spine. The old 350's were 330 or 340 spine. The Rampage at 27" is going to be way stiff. I'd say the closest thing you have to optimal is the Maxima 350.

The difference of a 100 or 125 point is usually pretty minor.

Here's tge chart on Maxima Red SD.


The 350's @ roughly .344 spine are where you will want to be I suspect. SD 300's would work too but unless you add a whole lot more tip weight you probably don't want the Rampage @ 250 spine.

 

[Gosh darn ram]

Carbon express doesn't correlate their numbers to the spine. A 250 I believe is 400 spine. The old 350's were 330 or 340 spine. The Rampage at 27" is going to be way stiff. I'd say the closest thing you have to optimal is the Maxima 350.

The difference of a 100 or 125 point is usually pretty minor.

Here's tge chart on Maxima Red SD.

View attachment 434111
The 350's @ roughly .344 spine are where you will want to be I suspect. SD 300's would work too but unless you add a whole lot more tip weight you probably don't want the Rampage @ 250 spine.

Awesome thank you the rampage have the 52 grain inserts in them aswell I believe there the half outs

 

[Billy Goat]

Awesome thank you the rampage have the 52 grain inserts in them aswell I believe there the half outs

Yeah that's not enough to break down the spine. Cutting shafts shorter stiffens the reaction. I used .250's with 185 on the front, 75#, 340+ ibo bow, 29" DL and I think they were 28.5".

They were still pretty stiff, tuned really well, but stiff.

You probably need 350 on the front with that bow and 70# with them at 27".

 

[Gosh darn ram]

Yeah that's not enough to break down the spine. Cutting shafts shorter stiffens the reaction. I used .250's with 185 on the front, 75#, 340+ ibo bow, 29" DL and I think they were 28.5".

They were still pretty stiff, tuned really well, but stiff.

You probably need 350 on the front with that bow and 70# with them at 27".

If you don't mind me asking I've seen it thrown around alot what exactly does tuning a bow mean I've seen tuning it to a arrow then tuning it to a broadhead and then I've seen shafts tuning ones?
Sorry to get off topic but I was wondering another question if you don't mind would the maxima reds SD 350 the iron will wide 125 grain be a good setup with my current bow?

 

[Billy Goat]

If you don't mind me asking I've seen it thrown around alot what exactly does tuning a bow mean I've seen tuning it to a arrow then tuning it to a broadhead and then I've seen shafts tuning ones?
Sorry to get off topic but I was wondering another question if you don't mind would the maxima reds SD 350 the iron will wide 125 grain be a good setup with my current bow?

Tuning the bow is some arrow tuning, but mostly actually tuning the bow. With a centershot compound they can handle a wide range of arrow spine reaction. You nerd to have the arrow tuned close to correct, but you can get a lot of leeway on it being perfect, then you tune the bow. Tuning the bow is adjusting the centershot, nock height/rest height, the cam lean, the cam timing to the arrow to get perfect arrow flight.

Arrow tuning with a compound is generally pretty simple. You cut to to an appropriate length for the specs you are going to be using which would include tip weight, release type, draw weight, draw length, etc. Then you might get into rotating the nock to ensure that each arrow in a group reacts exactly the same way coming out of a bow. Now, arrow tuning for a recurve/longbow is a bit more complicated. Most of those aren't cut past center so they rely on the archers paradox, which is bending the arrow around the riser as it flexes, then recovers to straight arrow flight. To do this it takes a lot of testing, adding and subtracting weight on the front and cutting the arrow down to stiffen it while not getting too stiff. Not too much tuning to do on a recurve unless it's an ILF setup or has limb bolts to adjust tiller. You can adjust the brace height, which changes arrow reaction too, can build the shelf out a bit, but that's about it. The rest is tuning the archer and the arrow.


Broadhead tuning is a method of bow tuning where you are shooting fieldpoints and broadheads and bringing their impact point together.


I think the Maxima Red SD with a 125 is going to be a reasonable arrow for your specs. I suspect the 250 Maxima Red is too weak, however you could probably get them cut back to 25.5-26" and use a 100 gr head and they would work too. Going to need to decide if you want a little lighter arrow for the speed or a little heavier arrow that will be slightly quieter, slightly better at penetration. Only saying slightly because it's not a huge difference between them, 50 gr if they have same fletching and 100 versus 125 point weight.

 

[Gosh darn ram]

Tuning the bow is some arrow tuning, but mostly actually tuning the bow. With a centershot compound they can handle a wide range of arrow spine reaction. You nerd to have the arrow tuned close to correct, but you can get a lot of leeway on it being perfect, then you tune the bow. Tuning the bow is adjusting the centershot, nock height/rest height, the cam lean, the cam timing to the arrow to get perfect arrow flight.

Arrow tuning with a compound is generally pretty simple. You cut to to an appropriate length for the specs you are going to be using which would include tip weight, release type, draw weight, draw length, etc. Then you might get into rotating the nock to ensure that each arrow in a group reacts exactly the same way coming out of a bow. Now, arrow tuning for a recurve/longbow is a bit more complicated. Most of those aren't cut past center so they rely on the archers paradox, which is bending the arrow around the riser as it flexes, then recovers to straight arrow flight. To do this it takes a lot of testing, adding and subtracting weight on the front and cutting the arrow down to stiffen it while not getting too stiff. Not too much tuning to do on a recurve unless it's an ILF setup or has limb bolts to adjust tiller. You can adjust the brace height, which changes arrow reaction too, can build the shelf out a bit, but that's about it. The rest is tuning the archer and the arrow.


Broadhead tuning is a method of bow tuning where you are shooting fieldpoints and broadheads and bringing their impact point together.


I think the Maxima Red SD with a 125 is going to be a reasonable arrow for your specs. I suspect the 250 Maxima Red is too weak, however you could probably get them cut back to 25.5-26" and use a 100 gr head and they would work too. Going to need to decide if you want a little lighter arrow for the speed or a little heavier arrow that will be slightly quieter, slightly better at penetration. Only saying slightly because it's not a huge difference between them, 50 gr if they have same fletching and 100 versus 125 point weight.

How do u know if your arrow is to weak or to stiff?

 

[Billy Goat]

How do u know if your arrow is to weak or to stiff?

With a recurve it's by left or right impacts.

With a compound weak just usually produces erratic or large groups. To some extent I don't know if you can actually be too stiff with a compound, however I definitely find a stiff spine to not be as forgiving. Meaning, again, larger groups.

 

[Gosh darn ram]

Oh okay sounds good I'll definitely check it out thank you very much sir!

 

[SuspiciousFish]

How do u know if your arrow is to weak or to stiff?

Spine Selector | Gold Tip Arrows

The Gold Tip Spine Selector to help find the perfect Arrow fit.

www.goldtip.com

Gold tip has a good spine calculator. You basically want a balance between a good FOC (Front of Center) and a stiff spine to handle the acceleration of the string. If your spine is too stiff the shaft will be too heavy for the point and the arrow will not be stable in flight. If the spine is too weak, the arrow will bend too much when the string pushes it and it will cause accuracy issues.

 

[VABowhunting]

Spine is measured at 28", so for your setup at 75lbs and 26in of draw you would likely get away with a 340 spine if you don't overload the front. I have build hundreds of setups for folks and tinker with mine a lot, modern bows shoot a slightly stiffer arrow better and a slightly weaker one. If you are wanting to shoot a 200gr head I would just use the 52gr black eagle insert and call it a day with the 300s. They won't be hard to tune if you bow is setup properly. Shoot one bare shaft prior to fletching and get it to hit plumb. You will be good to go

 

[Gosh darn ram]

Spine is measured at 28", so for your setup at 75lbs and 26in of draw you would likely get away with a 340 spine if you don't overload the front. I have build hundreds of setups for folks and tinker with mine a lot, modern bows shoot a slightly stiffer arrow better and a slightly weaker one. If you are wanting to shoot a 200gr head I would just use the 52gr black eagle insert and call it a day with the 300s. They won't be hard to tune if you bow is setup properly. Shoot one bare shaft prior to fletching and get it to hit plumb. You will be good to go

125 heads are about as big as I'd like to go at the moment some of my shots are pretty good ways out what arrow do you recommend from the ones listed above if you don't mind me asking

 

[VABowhunting]

125 heads are about as big as I'd like to go at the moment some of my shots are pretty good ways out what arrow do you recommend from the ones listed above if you don't mind me asking

If you are only shooting 125gr heads a 340 or 350 spine arrow would be the best choice. Plenty of good arrow choices from black eagle, sirius, gold tip, Easton etc

 

[Gosh darn ram]

If you are only shooting 125gr heads a 340 or 350 spine arrow would be the best choice. Plenty of good arrow choices from black eagle, sirius, gold tip, Easton etc

Is a thinner or thicker arrow a better option?

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Hey not to hijack the thread I'm new to this site and can't post anything I apologize in advance I'm curious about my bow/arrow setup this is what I have and I intend to shoot blackbear and white tail deer this year
Hoyt axius alpha 70 lbs
26.5in draw
Arrows are I have 3 types 1.maxima red 250 spine 2.maxima red sd I believe 350 spine and 3.black eagle rampage 250 spine arrows all cut to 27in with nocturnal lighted knocks
I'll be shooting the iron will wide 125grain fixed blades but I have some rage hypodermic 100g and some iron will s100 what do you all recommend I've only shot the maxima 250 spine threw the bow and my groups where decent but not the best
Please feel free for recommendations it would help alot thank you all in advance

qSpine/OT2Go says 340-350 spine should be near "optimal" at your specs. Like any spine calculator (or chart) though, it's just giving an approximation based on rules of thumb, not a set-in-stone requirement for good arrow flight. Compound bows can typically handle a fairly wide range of spines, so I wouldn't sweat over it too much.

Bow inputs: 342 fps IBO, 70# DW, 26.5" DL, 29.5" ATA, 6.125" BH, 85% LO
Arrow inputs: 27" C2C, 125 gr head, 54 gr insert, 25 gr nock, 3 vanes at 7 gr/ea

 

[Gosh darn ram]

qSpine/OT2Go says 340-350 spine should be near "optimal" at your specs. Like any spine calculator (or chart) though, it's just giving an approximation based on rules of thumb, not a set-in-stone requirement for good arrow flight. Compound bows can typically handle a fairly wide range of spines, so I wouldn't sweat over it too much.

Bow inputs: 342 fps IBO, 70# DW, 26.5" DL, 29.5" ATA, 6.125" BH, 85% LO
Arrow inputs: 27" C2C, 125 gr head, 54 gr insert, 25 gr nock, 3 vanes at 7 gr/ea
View attachment 434445

Awesome thank you everyone for all of the help if yall don't mind me asking what is a good group for 20 yards and then 40 then 60 yards?