Arrow diameters, weight and speed

[Whisky]

That would make .300s the Lincoln log diameter.

.166 = Micro" or 4mm
.204 = "small" or 5mm
All others = 6mm??

 

[Zac]

I have a Ram too, and have had better luck. But, really only shooting .001" arrows, Axis, Rampage right now. (I know that's straightness, but I think it carries over to spine)

One of the big reasons I only buy high end components is I generally haven't had to deal with the issues you get with some of the cheaper crap on the market. Another reason I've never had to nock tune an arrow...

Straightness has absolutely nothing to do with spine consistency.

 

[Zac]

What are .204 diameter arrows considered? To be honest I didmt even realize there was an in between XT .300 and micro diameter.
What has been said makes sense. I do composite work for a living. Standardizing the static makes sense from a consumer's understanding. Then the process and materials alter the dynamic.

.246 standard diameter
.204 (5mm)
.165 micro, or (4mm)
.125 nano

 

[Brendan]

Straightness has absolutely nothing to do with spine consistency.

I know that, my point was that I've had better luck with spine consistency in the .001" arrows. As in, I think the better arrows deliver both (Correlation not causation).

I even went as far as getting the upgraded bearings for my Ram tester to make measurements easier and more consistent.

 

[Buffalomtn]

I have a Ram too, and have had better luck. But, really only shooting .001" arrows, Axis, Rampage right now. (I know that's straightness, but I think it carries over to spine)

One of the big reasons I only buy high end components is I generally haven't had to deal with the issues you get with some of the cheaper crap on the market. Another reason I've never had to nock tune an arrow...

All the arrows I have tested are .001 or .0015 rated straightness. Arrows tested include Easton Axis and FMJ, Victory RIP TKO, ELITE, XV, Black Eagle Rampage, Sirius Apollo in 5MM. All the usual suspects in .166 ID as well.
Point is there is no way I would switch diameter or brands of arrows and assume that my tune would not need to be checked because the new arrow had the same spine printed on the shaft as the old one. The OP did not want to have to tune again, said he had equipment to do so. If that is the case he should not switch and assume he will not have to tune.

 

[Brendan]

All the arrows I have tested are .001 or .0015 rated straightness. Arrows tested include Easton Axis and FMJ, Victory RIP TKO, ELITE, XV, Black Eagle Rampage, Sirius Apollo in 5MM. All the usual suspects in .166 ID as well.
Point is there is no way I would switch diameter or brands of arrows and assume that my tune would not need to be checked because the new arrow had the same spine printed on the shaft as the old one. The OP did not want to have to tune again, said he had equipment to do so. If that is the case he should not switch and assume he will not have to tune.

I definitely agree on expecting that you'll need to re-tune. I pretty much expect that I'll need to at least verify with any change I make bow or arrow.

My comment on the arrows was just limited to the measurements that I take on the shafts that I shoot and have shot. Maybe I just got lucky on the batches, I do tend to get 2 dozen at a time.

One of the best arrows I've had were interestingly enough the Pierce Platinum, too bad I'm not a fan of Micro-Diameter arrows.

 

[S.Clancy]

If I shoot 552 grain XTs at 200 fps and switch to 552 grain vap tkos, same vanes, will the fps be the same with shaft diameter change?
I ask because I want to make the switch but dont want to re-tune. Mostly because I dont have the tools to do it on my own, yet.

I should probably mention, I'm going to have to shorten the length of the vap tkos to get the overall weight within 5 grains. - ~ .5" the shaft (28" - 27.5")

The said fps is just a random number for reference.

You may see a difference in POI at long range due to drop in drag, but point blank speed should stay the same.

 

[ZDR]

.246 standard diameter
.204 (5mm)
.165 micro, or (4mm)
.125 nano

this is all inner diameters - correct?

 

[three5x5s]

If there is a broad-head for .125 nano i would like to try it.

 

[MattB]

.166 = Micro" or 4mm
.204 = "small" or 5mm
All others = 6mm??

.300 is the spine, not the OD.

 

[pirogue]

If I shoot 552 grain XTs at 200 fps and switch to 552 grain vap tkos, same vanes, will the fps be the same with shaft diameter change?
I ask because I want to make the switch but dont want to re-tune. Mostly because I dont have the tools to do it on my own, yet.

I should probably mention, I'm going to have to shorten the length of the vap tkos to get the overall weight within 5 grains. - ~ .5" the shaft (28" - 27.5")

The said fps is just a random number for reference.

I thought those cap tkos arrows were <10gpi, even for 300 spine. What the heck are you adding to get to 552gr.?

 

[SlickStickSlinger]

I thought those cap tkos arrows were <10gpi, even for 300 spine. What the heck are you adding to get to 552gr.?

You have probably figured by now I'm learning as we go here. I think FOC could be an issue BUT
3 blazer vane . 18g
75g SS outsert
200 cut throat single bevel
27.5" @ 9.5gpi
=554.25grains

Plus glue and a wrap...

I'll probably go with airstrikes.
Thanks for all the info

 

[MattB]

You have probably figured by now I'm learning as we go here. I think FOC could be an issue BUT
3 blazer vane . 18g
75g SS outsert
200 cut throat single bevel
27.5" @ 9.5gpi
=554.25grains

Plus glue and a wrap...

If you are shooting a .300 deflection shaft you will likely have way too much weight up front to spine. Start with the basics before you get carried away with the fancy things that people pimp on the internet in an attempt to look next level.

 

[SlickStickSlinger]

If you are shooting a .300 deflection shaft you will likely have way too much weight up front to spine. Start with the basics before you get carried away with the fancy things that people pimp on the internet in an attempt to look next level.

I am shooting 250 spine right now but then again I dont have a 75g outsert (insert) either...

I probably messed up buying 200g heads. Should have gone 125/150 to open more options with insert weight?

 

[Zac]

I know that, my point was that I've had better luck with spine consistency in the .001" arrows. As in, I think the better arrows deliver both (Correlation not causation).

I even went as far as getting the upgraded bearings for my Ram tester to make measurements easier and more consistent.

I still don't think they are related at all. However if you have a Ram you could certainly test that. I think there are .006 lots that probably spine out more accurately than some .001 lots. I would think that the type and brand of shaft is most important. I tend to think that Easton shafts are close enough not to test, but I wouldn't know because I haven't dropped money on a Ram. Been eyeballing OMP's new micro adjustable bow vice though.

 

[Zac]

this is all inner diameters - correct?

Yes I'll give some examples.
.246 Gold Tip Hunter
.205 Easton Axis, BE Rampage
.165 Gold Tip Pierce Kinetic
.125 BE Revelation, Easton X10

 

[Brendan]

I still don't think they are related at all. However if you have a Ram you could certainly test that. I think there are .006 lots that probably spine out more accurately than some .001 lots. I would think that the type and brand of shaft is most important. I tend to think that Easton shafts are close enough not to test, but I wouldn't know because I haven't dropped money on a Ram. Been eyeballing OMP's new micro adjustable bow vice though.

Saying "I don't think they're related at all" when you haven't tested them doesn't mean a thing.

I haven't tested a lot, but all of the .001 shafts I've tested have been very good from a spine consistency perspective, and I've had .006 shafts that have been bad. But, I actually think the best lot I tested was a .0025 GT Pierce Platinum, but at the time they didn't offer a .001" rated arrow in the series.

Maybe a better way of putting it would be that generally higher quality arrows deliver both spine consistency and straightness.

 

[Zac]

Saying "I don't think they're related at all" when you haven't tested them doesn't mean a thing.

I haven't tested a lot, but all of the .001 shafts I've tested have been very good from a spine consistency perspective, and I've had .006 shafts that have been bad. But, I actually think the best lot I tested was a .0025 GT Pierce Platinum, but at the time they didn't offer a .001" rated arrow in the series.

Maybe a better way of putting it would be that generally higher quality arrows deliver both spine consistency and straightness.

The build process that accounts for spine consistency has no relation to straightness at all. The only way the two are correlated is if the manufacturer is grouping the tightest spine tolerances with the straightest shafts. I do not believe this is any manufacturers process. I don't need a spine tester to know that these are two totally independent factors. You can't purchase a specific spine tolerance the same way you can purchase a run out tolerance. If you spine tested 100 Easton Axis shafts, half .001, and half .003. You would find the spines in both averaging the same. That is because it is a single standard for all the shafts.

 

[Brendan]

The build process that accounts for spine consistency has no relation to straightness at all. The only way the two are correlated is if the manufacturer is grouping the tightest spine tolerances with the straightest shafts. I do not believe this is any manufacturers process. I don't need a spine tester to know that these are two totally independent factors. You can't purchase a specific spine tolerance the same way you can purchase a run out tolerance. If you spine tested 100 Easton Axis shafts, half .001, and half .003. You would find the spines in both averaging the same. That is because it is a single standard for all the shafts.

I see where you're coming from, but you're disagreeing with someone who has a spine tester, and has tested different shafts across different manufacturers, and has some data on it.. Unless you have specific information from a manufacturer as to their process, you're guessing.

Not arguing that my relatively small sample size is the be-all, end-all, but I test every batch of arrows I buy for myself or build for friends, and it's better than nothing. The higher end shafts I've bought and tested, even within a manufacturer, have given me better spine tolerance.

 

[Zac]

I see where you're coming from, but you're disagreeing with someone who has a spine tester, and has tested different shafts across different manufacturers, and has some data on it.. Unless you have specific information from a manufacturer as to their process, you're guessing.

Not arguing that my relatively small sample size is the be-all, end-all, but I test every batch of arrows I buy for myself or build for friends, and it's better than nothing. The higher end shafts I've bought and tested, even within a manufacturer, have given me better spine tolerance.

I get the Match grades too. I'm just saying that as far as I know companies run all of their shafts through the same electronic belt fed spine tester. More emphasis is put on run out due to most people not owning a spine tester. If everyone did I think we would see much better tolerances, and possibly a match spine sorted designation. BTW, have you put any Victories through your Ram. I have heard the spine line is a joke.