Arrow build to break deer leg near joint

[Stalker69]

Sorry but many different people shoot many different setups and this is the worst advice on this entire thread thanks

Agree, there are many poor suggestions here on this post, more then I thought there would be, wow Sounds as though people are desperate to kill something and will take about any shot they get. Seriously, is your family going to starve if you dont shoot that animal. “Trophy” I know causes a lot of it, and will cause people to do stupid stuff. Braking heavy bone, you have already made a bad shot, and no matter how heavy of set you use ( yea I know “ my setup will blow though anything”, I still hear it all the time) . But even if you “ blow” through the heavier bones, most broad heads don’t get out the back side of the bone by more then 2 inches and still don’t reach the vitals. That’s with a direct dead center hit on the bone. Most bone impacts are slightly off center and causes the arrow to deflect, don’t brake the bone , even brake the arrow at times and penetration is usually horrible. Sure occasionally some get lucky and everything works out, and they post pictures and tell everyone about. But the vast majority of time it’s unrecovered animal and no one mentions it. But when your helping people look for animals they shot, you get a pretty good idea of how many failures there really are, no matter how heavy, or what broadhead your using.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Thought about this thread the other day while smoking a deer shoulder. While I am not opposed to shooting a hard hitting arrow that “could break bone”, it feels like it is a lower probability shot than the standard lung shot. To hit that knuckle joint on a deer you are talking about shooting in a rectangle about 2” wide and 5-6” long with uncertain placement based on the deers position and the chance that it moves either normally or by jumping your string. Just seems like a lot of variables to add to an already challenging task.

As I mentioned in my post a while back, I shoot a bow/arrow with enough umph to break some bone and I have punched through a few scapulas and a femur, but not on purpose.

 

[Farmingdale's Finest]

I have lost several good bucks to shoulder shots and I’m trying to remedy this. My current setup is 62#. 27.5” draw length. 515 grain arrow with 15% FOC. I have some 125 grain helix (single bevel) but thinking of moving to iron will or QAD exodus. Do you have any recommendations? Do any of you have a similar setup that has broken through the heavier part of bucks leg (below the scapula)? Should I look at changing my setup. My momentum is about .059.


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I have shattered the leg bones of deer as large as 200 pounds with what would not be considered a bone breaking arrow.

I have killed the vast majority of my 175-200 deer with total arrow weight between 380-430 grain arrows. The majority have been killed with either the original 3&4 blade Muzzy and the Rocky Mountain Gator/ Redhead Gator. My bow set up have been with mostly from what most would consider target bows today with IBO ratings of 308-325fps with a 70 pound draw. I switched to a 60 pound draw with a 326 FPS IBO 5 years ago and have continued the same bone breaking on whitetails.

I will be increasing my arrow weight to about 500 grains for next season to increase my momentum after getting hooked on Elk last fall. Didn’t get one but had a few encounters in a trip that was supposed to have 8 days of hunting but get cut short to 3 when my son got altitude sickness.


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[roosiebull]

Humerus is a big bone. Poor place to shoot an animal. Shouldn't be consistently hitting them there. You'd be better served studying anatomy and making better shot selection than looking for a new broadhead.

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good advice^^^
have not read all of the replies, but your arrow is fine, especially for deer. adjust your aim point, and make sure your arrow flight is perfect. a poor flying arrow is a poor performing arrow, even if it's heavy and high foc.

I build arrow setups for good shots, not bad shots, but I do keep in mind that **** happens. if you shoot one bad, how do you know what version of bad you end up shooting? we don't.

I personally don't care for tiny 2 blades, so i'm not using them planning on shooting through heavy bone.... I plan to make good shots, but if I shoot forward, I still stand a good chance on making it into the goodies... if I shoot back, I want a hole. this year I will use iron will and Valkyrie blood eagle... neither are huge heads, but neither are little 1" wide 2 blades either.

everything is a compromise. I do shoot over 600gr arrows, but they aren't that weight to shoot through heavy bone, I still avoid that.

 

[Marble]

I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere in the thread, but I would imagine there is some serious damage (dulling) being done to the edge on most broadheads when they hit bones. Quality of the metal of the blade is probably being overlooked a bit.

Iron will heads are supposed to be bad ass and sharp as hell. Which is a very under rated part of the broadhead system. If your head goes into something and dulls immediately, your screwed.

My personal experience is with a single bevel called Kudupoint broadhead. They have gone through the spine and off shoulder of a bear and some elk and still been sharp. But I do not think they are as tough or as sharp, or retain their edge like the iron will. But i like them. And their not too pricey.

 

[satchamo]

Take a look at Ranch Fairy. He spends a fair amount of energy on this topic

Yeah avoid this guys non sense at all costs. He’s killing pigs at like 10 yards off feeders. Probably the MOST controlled environment in hunting. He makes some good points but he is on the extreme end of FOC crowd and I’m not a fan of extremes on either end.

You don’t need an 800 grain arrow to blow through a shoulder. But to many others point, I wouldn’t make it your aiming point. I understand that it’s nice to be setup just in case though.

At which point get around 550 grains with a GOOD COC and you will have enough ass but not so much that you can fit a 12 gauge shell between your 20 and 30 yard pins.

Also someone else mentioned, ethics archery sells a field point test kit with tons of various weights. Buy that and just see what you can stand with your trajectory and go from there!


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[roosiebull]

I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere in the thread, but I would imagine there is some serious damage (dulling) being done to the edge on most broadheads when they hit bones. Quality of the metal of the blade is probably being overlooked a bit.

Iron will heads are supposed to be bad ass and sharp as hell. Which is a very under rated part of the broadhead system. If your head goes into something and dulls immediately, your screwed.

My personal experience is with a single bevel called Kudupoint broadhead. They have gone through the spine and off shoulder of a bear and some elk and still been sharp. But I do not think they are as tough or as sharp, or retain their edge like the iron will. But i like them. And their not too pricey.

kudu points have better edge retention than any head I have shot within that price range.... nothing else under 75$ has been as good in that regard. iron will do hold a little better edge, but both are good in that dept....

I found an arrow this fall that I missed a bull with the year before (deflected off a limb I didn't see and was probably 15' high when it got to the bull, haha) there was a little rust around where the ferrule meets the blade, but sitting around for a year on the Oregon coast, i'm surprised that was all that was wrong.... the blades were still really sharp, which blew me away... literally still hunting sharp after sitting over a year in a wet/salty environment.

I also shot one into a dead snag, right into a root, very hard wood. took a bit to dig it out, but once I did, it was still shaving sharp.

a couple years ago I got to see their operation and how they are built... between the materials and small scale process, I can't believe they don't cost more. I think they are the best head in that price range. the 150gr is a nasty head too (1.4" cut) I don't think they are the best design for splitting bone, but I like to avoid big bones. I don't build arrows to bust through elk knuckles (because I don't think any reasonable setup will reliably do it anyways) I do shoot over 600gr TAW, but not for shooting through big bones.

 

[Marble]

Ive got one in a tree about 12' that I need to take a drill and or little saw with me tio relive so I don't damage the arrow and head.

I am impressed with them. Ive got several of the 125s left so I'll just keep shooting them.

 

[beforethehunt]

Is it worth selling my arrows (Easton 6mm axis 10.2 goi 300 spine) to go with a gold tip kinetic to get higher foc (19%) at 510 grains vs my current setup with Lower foc (15%) at 500 grains. I could get foc to 16% by going with a 100 grain or even 18% with a 125 grain insert.

So 510 grains at 19% foc with gold tip velocity OR 525 grain 6mm axis with 16 % foc? Which will penetrate better? Or should I go all in 550 grain 6mm with 18% foc?


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[MattB]

Is it worth selling my arrows (Easton 6mm axis 10.2 goi 300 spine) to go with a gold tip kinetic to get higher foc (19%) at 510 grains vs my current setup with Lower foc (15%) at 500 grains. I could get foc to 16% by going with a 100 grain or even 18% with a 125 grain insert.

So 510 grains at 19% foc with gold tip velocity OR 525 grain 6mm axis with 16 % foc? Which will penetrate better? Or should I go all in 550 grain 6mm with 18% foc?


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I say no. The FOC difference is minimal and I would bet the 525 gr. arrow with the lower FOC will penetrate marginally more. IMO FOC is the most overblown metric when discussing arrow performance.

 

[Beendare]

Do I dare post the video that broke AT? Oh what the heck....grin

Guy shooting a couple 2 blades, the German Jaeger from Kustom King [3/$29] and the [excellent] original Silver Flames [NOT the Alaska Bowhunter version] He repeatedly blows through s big cow bone with a 460-ish grain arrow and double bevel BH.

Myself and many others that I know, have blown through bones on Elk, Hogs and deer with similar setups. My one buddy broke both front legs on a Blacktail last year with a 430 gr arrow. I've shot through both shoulders of an elk [440gr COC head at the time] with the arrow going so far down hill I never found it. Many examples that I have had or personally seen.

Contrary to some dog and pony shows on arrow building....you DON'T have to shoot 650gr+....or a single bevel BH for it to be effective.

These are made up "bone thresholds"... and when it comes to FOC....Easton has forgotten more about arrow building than the internet experts. Don't take my word for it....but surly take the word of every single pro shooter worth a snuff in every archery event....they are all in the Easton recommended range.

 

[beforethehunt]

Do I dare post the video that broke AT? Oh what the heck....grin

Guy shooting a couple 2 blades, the German Jaeger from Kustom King [3/$29] and the [excellent] original Silver Flames [NOT the Alaska Bowhunter version] He repeatedly blows through s big cow bone with a 460-ish grain arrow and double bevel BH.

Myself and many others that I know, have blown through bones on Elk, Hogs and deer with similar setups. My one buddy broke both front legs on a Blacktail last year with a 430 gr arrow. I've shot through both shoulders of an elk [440gr COC head at the time] with the arrow going so far down hill I never found it. Many examples that I have had or personally seen.

Contrary to some dog and pony shows on arrow building....you DON'T have to shoot 650gr+....or a single bevel BH for it to be effective.

These are made up "bone thresholds"... and when it comes to FOC....Easton has forgotten more about arrow building than the internet experts. Don't take my word for it....but surly take the word of every single pro shooter worth a snuff in every archery event....they are all in the Easton recommended range.

Bump. So almost everyone on here is against heavier 550grain arrows for better penetration?

 

[Beendare]

Bump. So almost everyone on here is against heavier 550grain arrows for better penetration?

No.
Don't get all wrapped up in the very high FOC guys....you will not see a difference in 4 points of FOC.

I think the best advice is;

Its going to depend on the type of hunting you do....most experienced guys choose a happy medium for their type of hunting. For most guys, a 450-550gr arrow is a good sweet spot. For a guy that takes 40, 50,60 yd shots in open country a 650gr arrow has much more arc that may account for misses.

On the other hand, a guy that only takes close 20,25yd shots on game can use a heavy 600gr arrow, he doesn't have to worry so much about trajectory on those close shots. Plus the added weight makes his bow quieter with less string jumping on those close shots.

For example; I like a happy medium in my compound- 500gr. It has a good trajectory and my bow is pretty darn quiet....a happy medium.

In my Recurve, I choose a heavy arrow for better arrow penetration in a low energy setup.

_____

 

[beforethehunt]

No.
Don't get all wrapped up in the very high FOC guys....you will not see a difference in 4 points of FOC.

I think the best advice is;

Its going to depend on the type of hunting you do....most experienced guys choose a happy medium for their type of hunting. For most guys, a 450-550gr arrow is a good sweet spot. For a guy that takes 40, 50,60 yd shots in open country a 650gr arrow has much more arc that may account for misses.

On the other hand, a guy that only takes close 20,25yd shots on game can use a heavy 600gr arrow, he doesn't have to worry so much about trajectory on those close shots. Plus the added weight makes his bow quieter with less string jumping on those close shots.

For example; I like a happy medium in my compound- 500gr. It has a good trajectory and my bow is pretty darn quiet....a happy medium.

In my Recurve, I choose a heavy arrow for better arrow penetration in a low energy setup.

_____

I am mostly a whitetail hunter but will be doing an elk hunt this fall.

 

[Billy Goat]

Bump. So almost everyone on here is against heavier 550grain arrows for better penetration?

I think the point several are making is with a medium weight arrow, say 450-500, you aren't giving up trajectory the way you are with something heavier, while still haven't my adequate penetration. If your whitetail hunting and shooting inside 35 yards, you could very likely be better suited to use a 650 grain arrow, no matter if the weight is in the front or heavier shaft. When your hunting distances might be 70-75 yards trajectory is more of a factor.

 

[dkime]

Bump. So almost everyone on here is against heavier 550grain arrows for better penetration?

Like the other two have mentioned, I don't think anyone is against going heavier as long as your system can handle it and tune properly. What MOST successful people here (the two others who replied to this exact quote being great examples of this @Billy Goat and @Beendare ) will tell you is you should focus on 7-8 grains per pound of draw weight. This is going to give most folks a very forgiving, easy to build, durable, tunable, and practical setup that offers the best blend of energy retention and trajectory.

 

[beforethehunt]

I shoot 535 grains at 50 and 60 pounds. Three blade VPA goes right through bone. 20 FOC gives great penetration.

Have you hit any leg bones on entrance or exit?


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[Rblumenberg]

Behind the shoulder... don't drink the ranch ferry Koolaid

 

[beforethehunt]

Behind the shoulder... don't drink the ranch ferry Koolaid

I’m dropping to 509 grains this year and trying to avoid the shoulder


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