Argument against small caliber? Blood trail/exit wounds?

[fatlander]

Not an apples to apples comparison/generalization...I'd be much more inclined to shoot a smaller cartridge with a good bullet in open country than use a mechanical broadhead.

In my experience long sharp two blades give superior penetration to mechanicals, especially at lower velocity with a recurve.

A mechanical for a recurve would be like someone talking about shooting big game with a rimfire rifle.

That’s not what I was referencing in my comparison nor what’s being discussed in this thread, but I think you probably knew that anyway?


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[North of 60]

My point was just be careful with generalizations that don't apply from firearms to archery...i disagree with your generalization that mechanicals are superior to COC broadheads.

I do agree that hitting them in the boiler room is wise for any choice of weapon

 

[fatlander]

My point was just be careful with generalizations that don't apply from firearms to archery...i disagree with your generalization that mechanicals are superior to COC broadheads.

I do agree that hitting them in the boiler room is wise for any choice of weapon

Mechanicals are inherently more accurate, with and without the human behind the bow; the human element skews accuracy further in favor of mechanicals. There’s no real debate there.

I don’t disagree there are applications where small coc broadheads are necessary like traditional archery. For the vast majority of grown men, shooting modern compound bows, mechanicals are the way to go.


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[Whitefox82]

For the same reason I shoot solid one piece broadheads I shoot a bonded or mono metal bullet for large big game like elk. I believe 2 holes are better than 1. And as long as you do your part with the placement, you usually watch them die. Plus the advantages of less meat damage to the shoulder area and being able to attack the crest cavity from an angle and through heavy bone or tissue to get there.

 

[Whitefox82]

IMO, shooting a modern compound bow should have nothing to do with whether you can use mechanical broadheads. You need to be pulling back enough weight to get the velocity and energy to force an expandable entirely through an animal. ( Of course you don’t need a pass through to kill but I do believe an exit is important in bow hunting for tracking) Most guys probably aren’t pulling enough weight with their choice of expandable and should switch to coc or to a smaller expandable. I’ve seen WAY to many instances of TERRIBLE penetration with guys shooting expandables, especially when they contact the shoulder.

 

[North of 60]

IMO, shooting a modern compound bow should have nothing to do with whether you can use mechanical broadheads. You need to be pulling back enough weight to get the velocity and energy to force an expandable entirely through an animal. ( Of course you don’t need a pass through to kill but I do believe an exit is important in bow hunting for tracking) Most guys probably aren’t pulling enough weight with their choice of expandable and should switch to coc or to a smaller expandable. I’ve seen WAY to many instances of TERRIBLE penetration with guys shooting expandables, especially when they contact the shoulder.

Exactly why i don't use mechanicals...the simple reason that coc will penetrate better nearly always and critters can easily move upon the release of a bow and lead to a less than better shot needing a coc broadhead to more likely be successful compared to the velocity of a firearm.

And we may want to go back to the discussion of bullets to not derail this thread

 

[majg1234]

The placement of the bullet is the most important part of the puzzle.
I've had bang flops,knock down and run,just plain old runaways,some amazing blood trails (350Rem mag heart lung, shot with lung tissue for about 60yrds) and then again no blood trails with a bunch of calibers.243 through 45-70 even the mighty 375H&H
The bottem line is NOTHING will always give a good blood trail,tracking skills involve more than following a red line in the dirt,leaves,pine needles , rocks and so forth.

 

[270-300]

I don’t mean to offend and I’m sure there are brilliant guides on here but many I’ve been around are great at finding elk, gossiping, and complaining. That’s about it.

None have been convincing at all in their understanding of ballistics, long range shooting, bullets, or terminal performance.

In the past 2 years I’ve heard how the creed can’t kill with less than 4 shots and how the 6.5prc with the same bullet will knock them on their ass and when asked the velocity at impact they had zero clue.

I’ve also been told adamantly how great their rifle is after they told a story about missing an elk twice at 500 yards and finally killing it after 3 more.
These are just the last few and the sober ones.


I’ve stopped really putting an ounce of care into what a guide thinks I should use to kill an animal

The problem with some guides, is similar to college basketball vs the nba. Some guides arent in it to do anything right, and clearly do not enjoy it. Some guides are just after 10k for showing someone where elk sometimes are, who cares if they shoot one. Ive also had a run in with a local outfit who will send out people to chase other hunters off of public land a day before they bring clients out. After that experience i carry a dan thompson red desert howler when elk hunting now.

Then there are the guides that are like watching the wnba. I hired one of those for musky fishing onetime.

 

[DangerRanger]

The problem with some guides, is similar to college basketball vs the nba. Some guides arent in it to do anything right, and clearly do not enjoy it. Some guides are just after 10k for showing someone where elk sometimes are, who cares if they shoot one. Ive also had a run in with a local outfit who will send out people to chase other hunters off of public land a day before they bring clients out. After that experience i carry a dan thompson red desert howler when elk hunting now.

Then there are the guides that are like watching the wnba. I hired one of those for musky fishing onetime.

Right, I can think of one guide I’ve known/used that was interested and knowledgeable in terminal ballistics and long range ballistics.

And he was a pos that stole a bear from a hunter in my group after spotting it, calling in a buddy and they went and killed it that night then left camp

 

[270-300]

Right, I can think of one guide I’ve known/used that was interested and knowledgeable in terminal ballistics and long range ballistics.

And he was a pos that stole a bear from a hunter in my group after spotting it, calling in a buddy and they went and killed it that night then left camp

Theres a racket in south east wyoming that guides elk. They charge 8k with no guarantee of an elk. If you pay 11k they will give 7k back when you dont get an elk. Thats without any lodging or food expenses, and only 5 days. They drive around putting no trespassing signs on public state owned land that contains elk. Its also one of those deals where they wont people people shoot the big ones unless they tip a lot. Onetime i was on a long chunk of state land that cuts about 5 miles back into land they own. One of their guides came out and shot at a herd of deer to chase them back on the private, then tried to solicit me to pay them $5k so i could shoot a deer on the private. Someone saying they are a guide does not make me think they have to be respectable or knowledgeable.

The fishing guides have a racked on the north platte where they limit river access so that people have to pay them in order to float the river in the good spots.

 

[streamerfish]

Just came back from a Colorado guided hunt. I use 30-06, but thinking of getting a 6.5CM for mostly long distance shooting and occasional speed goat.

There were three guides and I asked each, independent of the other, about 65CM.
Basically all three said they hate it when hunters show up 6.5 (anything), as it’s a military caliber and in their experience on elk, (mostly 6.5CM) punches entry and exit hole and does not do the internal damage a 30 cal would do unless it hits something solid.

Sure, they’d seen some hunters who are very effective with the 6.5Cm on elk but the nature of the round means the hunter really has to step it up and it also means the angles and distances that a 30 cal cartridge allows is more restricted with the 6.5.

They also frequently find the lack of blood trail from 6.5 cal it means a very long day for them tracking the wounded animal up and down mountains.

We didn’t discuss loads, but they did ask my partner and I what caliber and load we were using.

Not seeking to start caliber war, but thought you’d like some feedback from guys who do this for a living.

Its just another data point on how uneducated alot of supposed professionals are.