Are turkeys getting harder to kill?

I don’t think they’re “harder” to kill or any smarter. I think hunters have gotten less patient and have unrealistic expectations. Too many 15 minute hunting infomercials have warped our view of reality. I’ve hunted twice and killed two birds. One was vocal and one was not. Both took most of a day and some patience to kill. Here in SC we had a mid March opener and 5 bird limit. Those early birds were aggressive and easy to kill. Too easy, any idiot could kill a turkey, that’s the reason numbers are down. A lay down hen and half strut jake decoy made for a lot of quick kills and turkey hunting gurus. Now the season is two weeks later in the breeding cycle and the birds don’t come running in to die. They haven’t gotten magically gotten smarter… it’s still the same turkey as it always was. Its just not as easy in mid April as it is in mid March.
I think it’s more about selectively breeding out the more aggressive/gobbling behavior through hunting. I think they can learn, and they certainly respond to predatory pressure, but certainly don’t pass it on between generations so “smarter” doesn’t really describe it accurately.

Not saying this is the case at all, but so many people say it took X hours to kill a bird when it very likely could have been a totally different gobbler that came in. Hard to single out a turkey and definitively say that it was superb skill that carried the day. Not saying it doesn’t happen, because it does, but I often see this position taken with reckless certainty.
 
I don’t buy the gobbling genetics argument. Weather, where they are in the breeding cycle and pressure has a huge factor in how much they gobble. We had a low pressure system roll thru on the opener this year. It was warmer than normal and humid. Birds didn’t gobble a lot. A few days later we had high pressure and cool clear mornings and those same birds gobbled their asses off. For years we had an mid March opener and 5 bird limit. A shitload of birds died during those two weeks in March. If you could wipe out the gobbling genetic we would have. They’re still doing the same thing, we just don’t get to hunt them when it’s easy to kill one anymore.
 
Turkeys use gobbling to get together for mating. The increase in mating from letting hens know where it is, selects for gobbling. If it doesn't gobble it's either looking at a hen, changing location or aware of a violent actor close by. Violent includes both predators and other male turkeys.

Turkeys can be conditioned against gobbling by predator pressure, but even the oldest, hardest hunted will still gobble at least once before pitching out. It may do it with its head pulled into its feathers and beak closed, but they always gobble. You just have to be able to find them without it and get close enough to hear it. The same bird will also gobble from a safe strut zone when hens are not present.

Currently many areas have so few hens gobblers are following the few which exist almost all day. These turkeys do not gobble because they are looking at a hen. This even goes on into early summer as some jennys come into season. It isn't that the turkey wouldn't gobble, it just isn't appropriate for it to gobble.
 
Here in OK, we had an exceptional turkey population.
The seasons opened at the best time and a spring bag limit of 3 was satisfactory.
Last bird I killed was a fall 2019 bird.

In 2019 i had shoulder surgery and a avian pox came through.
I couldn't hunt, besides, that pox REALLY decimated the population! Where I used to see birds often, I couldn't even find a track.
Where turkeys used to roost had been vacated!
It was (is?) awful. The state reduced us to one spring bird and one fall bird. Then they moved the season opening date ten days later! Just to the last 3 or 4 days of the peak "rut"!
....but numbers are FINALLY coming back. I'm beginning to see birds where I hadn't seen them in a while.
I think the population drop was overstated by the Wildlife Department. I think some areas of the state may have seen a decline, but when you look at the number of birds killed (per the Wildlife Department website), 2024 was basically the same number as 2020. Thats with you only being able to kill one in 2024. 2021 was down, but every year since the total number killed has gone up. I hunt private land in SW Oklahoma which was supposed to be an area that was way down and we've got more turkeys on our place than we did five years ago.
 
I think the population drop was overstated by the Wildlife Department. I think some areas of the state may have seen a decline, but when you look at the number of birds killed (per the Wildlife Department website), 2024 was basically the same number as 2020. Thats with you only being able to kill one in 2024. 2021 was down, but every year since the total number killed has gone up. I hunt private land in SW Oklahoma which was supposed to be an area that was way down and we've got more turkeys on our place than we did five years ago.
I hunt an area where killing your 2 spring birds was relatively "easy".
Across the road was a different county. Taking your third bird was as simple as crossing the road!
After 2019, same area and you were lucky to find a track, much less see OR hear a turkey!
I only have 3 or 4 spots I can hunt turkeys, and those spots are relatively small when talking "turkey hunting". I have no room to "run 'n gun".....and I can no longer "run"! Hell, I can barely walk! LOL!
It's go in, set up, call and hope something comes your way.
So basically, my representative areas probably are not very representative.
 
I think we take out the dumb ones are creating a situation where they just got smarter over time regardless of the species.
 
They come thru our front yard several times a day. I had a tom about 25 yards behind and to the left of my 100 yard steel plate a few days ago around 2pm and he could care less. Ting Ting Ting. Pecking away at the soil.
I watched a 10" bearded tom bed down in the shade of the front yard today. Our rooster finally ran him off.

I leave our farm to turkey hunt, the birds become completely different--wild, wary and unpredictable--just away from our place.
 
I’m with juju (post #4). Too many hunters, too few turkeys. The population decline is real, and significant, in the OH/KY/TN core area and south/SE. I just suffered through opening weekend in Ohio. Guys were parking empty pickups in spots the night before just to claim spots. Opening morning it took me 6 parking spots to find an empty one and a truck pulled in behind me 10 minutes after I parked. I really, really, hate to sound like an old guy pining for “the good old days” but damn…

EDIT: the number of “owls” hooting and screeching in the evenings was impressive. Thanks, THP 😂
 
If hunters were able to shoot out genetic traits, there'd be no spike bucks in New York, no six-pointers in South Carolina, and no 140-class deer in Texas. LOL

Turkeys are having a hard time in a significant number of areas for a variety of reasons, and I think hunting pressure is toward the bottom of the list. But game departments can control hunting pressure more easily than other things, which is why you see decreased tags and season changes since the decline in turkey abundance caught their attention.

Habitat losses, changes, and inappropriate management haven't even been mentioned in this thread, but the studies over time all point to these prime culprits. Lack and loss of good ground to raise turkeys means less food, less ideal nesting cover, and more predators.

Interestingly, the turkey decline can be noted all the way back to 2004/2005, when official restoration efforts wound down.

Resources:




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I didn't think anyone was listening to chamberlain anymore after his wannabe rock star stunt with those YouTube hunt whores.

I'd like to see in-person check-ins and blood samples drawn for analysis.
 
I can only speak to my area in southern MO, but ......

I started turkey hunting around 2008 or so. It took me a few years to figure it out and then I killed birds with some real regularity on public until about 2016 or so. It's been really tough ever since, although numbers seem to be on the rise over the last few years.

My line has usually been the turkey hunting is about finding the bird who wants to die that day. My experience is that for the last 7-8 years I have put in a huge increase in time/hiking to find those birds. Lots of quiet days.

I don't know reasons why, everybody seems to have their pet theory. I sure do miss 2010-2015 turkey hunting sometimes though.
 
In my opinion it is a change in the way birds respond to calls overall.

Couldn't agree more, getting a bird to work to the gun while calling rarely works anymore. And I'm not talking loud aggressive calling while he's coming, basically just clucks or scratching in the leaves to get that last 30 yards or so and most will not commit, as compared to years past.

Just worked a bird in Ohio that was in a bottom 200 yards away, so had plenty of time to setup on top as he was not that hot. My original plan was to set looking down the hill and never call again, but the hillcrest was way too bright with the sunlight, (skylined) so opted to sit back as it dropped back off some but was really shady. Sure, enough my original plan would have worked if not for the bright sunlight as I never called again and he soon gobbled a few times on this point, where I would have seen him coming.

So now I'm sitting 40 yards back in the shade and could not see his position as he held there and maybe gobbled 3 times in a 10 minute span. So now I make the fatal mistake of scratching the leaves as now he knows my location and would not commit and eventually faded off.

I never would have thought scratching in the leaves would have this outcome based on many killed birds of the years doing this. Nowadays you are better off getting their attention and never calling again, even soft calls and scratching aren't worth it as you are better to give the impression you left. Most birds now seem like when they know your exact position, will not commit and want to see that hen.

Do agree birds have definitely changed the way the respond to calls, there was a time 20-30 years ago I could get a bird to gobble running and gunning any day, some I killed some I didn't, but those days are long gone. And years ago, killed many with calling right to the gun, and that slowly waned over the yeras, so over the last 10 years toned it down to clucking and leave scratching to the gun and killed many, and now this technique is wanning, where I'm getting to the point of never calling again to the gun, even if it's just leave scratching.
 
I shouldn’t really tell my secret but most guys are incapable of listening to reason anyhow…..so I’ll tell it. And it had killed a LOT of gobblers.

Set your phone alarm to buzz in your pocket to buzz every 10 minutes. Only call quietly 1 time when your phone buzz’s.

Under NO circumstance do you call again until your phone buzz’s….And no, I don’t care if that bird gobbled 40 times….DO NOT CALL AGAIN.

Don’t move. Don’t blink. Keep your gun ready….
 
@ limbhanger and MallardSX2

First off, since a gobbler can't actually "talk" to you, there is no telling "why" he quits responding. It's all a guess.

As I got more into turkey hunting, I read a LOT of articles. Some by well known (Knight & Hale) and some by not so well known!

I called a gobbler across Cow Creek one day. A hundred and fifty feet wide and 30 feet deep.
The next week, I had a gobbler hang up on a ditch I stepped across to my sitting spot.

One guy wrote about a tom that kept eluding him. He gave a friend all his calls. His friend was to wait fifteen minutes and begin calling. As soon as he called, he was to put down that call and call again, as soon as possible, on the different call.
His thinking was that the bird would "run away" from all the racket, straight to him.
After about 5 minutes of constant clucks, purrs, yelps and putts, imagine the friends surprise when the troublesome gobbler popped up, right in his face! His gun was unloaded!

I've had turkeys come to a box call I made that sounded like a mouse with his foot caught in a trap.
I've also had turkeys walk away from commercial grade, high quality calls.

A friend said to me once, "I don't want to call too much."
"What's too much?", I asked.
He just sat there and stared at me.
Finally I said, "You'll know you called too much if the bird leaves. Same for when you call too little! The bird leaves!"

Turkeys go through phases. I've had toms almost within gun range that never responded to any call I made.
In the right "phase" (#3), you can call a turkey from halfway across Texas with a rusty gate hinge!

You just never know.
Play it by ear.
Listen to your gut instinct.
MallardSX2, turkeys don't carry timers or stop watches. LOL!

With all that being said, who knows if what you're doing works or not!

If only dead turkeys could talk!

I'm just saying, "there are no 'etched in stone' turkey calling rules".
Just do what you think will work!
Carry on!
 
Southeastern subspecies, specifically. But mainly because those seem to face the highest pressure.

I know the theory about gobbling being evolved out of turkeys based on harvest rates has floated around (and makes sense to me) but what is everyone else seeing?

I feel like 20 years ago, a turkey would be more vocal and more willing to come to a call. Now, it’s like 1 out of 10 at best. AND when they come in, it’s like a deer slipping in cover and sneaking around. Definitely get a suicidal one now and again, but I swear this is not the turkey I remember from the 90’s and early 2000’s.

Don’t even get me started on the amount of people you have to contend with now. Thanks THP and the pinhead guy that pets dead turkeys.
Where is the southeastern subspecies located? I know of Eastern and Osceola east of the Mississippi, never heard of the "southeastern" bird.
 
Yeah I meant eastern, southeastern region. Never messed with osceolas. From what I understand they’ve always been hard as hell to kill.
 
Where is the southeastern subspecies located? I know of Eastern and Osceola east of the Mississippi, never heard of the "southeastern" bird.
In eastern Oklahoma, there are a few Eastern × Rio cross turkeys.
Could that be a RiEast? Maybe an EaRio?
You know us "suthen red necks"! We'd cross a seed tick and a porcupine to get a "prickly tick" or vice versa! LOL!
 
They’ve always been hard to kill! Whitetails are too if you hunt the older ones. Trying to get into some good redhead or blue bill numbers are too if you’re in the South. Back to turkeys, they have a lot more pressure now with wanna-be YouTubers and Primos in the 90’s, let’s not leave his VCR tapes out, making it even more difficult with all the loud calling. People are hunting out of blinds just thrown up or behind commercial barriers, shooting too far with too tight of chokes if he gets really close the spread is too small, and WE ARE NOT TRAPPING ENOUGH anymore. The inmates are overrunning the asylums.

In the South, I believe fully, the problem is the new log cutters!!!!!!!!!!!! Years ago it was a problem to clearcut land with chainsaws, we did it, but not at this rate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now, you can clearcut a few hundred acres in a matter of days not months. There isn’t enough hardwoods left, they just sliced them down and left them where they fell, timber companies want pines growing.

Also, just keep calling loud, strong, cackling, blowing your owl calls all during the day and crow calls, big long cadences of yelps, don’t learn how to make soft purrs or gentle super soft clucks, or easy, soft three note yelps, don’t learn how to slllooowwwwllllyyy reach for some leaves and move them like a hen scratching. I will say this, it’s also harder when you don’t know your woods as well as we used to in the past. We used to be in the woods all the time. We found that time, then.
 
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