Are turkeys getting harder to kill?

[Will_m]

I don’t think they’re “harder” to kill or any smarter. I think hunters have gotten less patient and have unrealistic expectations. Too many 15 minute hunting infomercials have warped our view of reality. I’ve hunted twice and killed two birds. One was vocal and one was not. Both took most of a day and some patience to kill. Here in SC we had a mid March opener and 5 bird limit. Those early birds were aggressive and easy to kill. Too easy, any idiot could kill a turkey, that’s the reason numbers are down. A lay down hen and half strut jake decoy made for a lot of quick kills and turkey hunting gurus. Now the season is two weeks later in the breeding cycle and the birds don’t come running in to die. They haven’t gotten magically gotten smarter… it’s still the same turkey as it always was. Its just not as easy in mid April as it is in mid March.

I think it’s more about selectively breeding out the more aggressive/gobbling behavior through hunting. I think they can learn, and they certainly respond to predatory pressure, but certainly don’t pass it on between generations so “smarter” doesn’t really describe it accurately.

Not saying this is the case at all, but so many people say it took X hours to kill a bird when it very likely could have been a totally different gobbler that came in. Hard to single out a turkey and definitively say that it was superb skill that carried the day. Not saying it doesn’t happen, because it does, but I often see this position taken with reckless certainty.

 

[FLS]

I don’t buy the gobbling genetics argument. Weather, where they are in the breeding cycle and pressure has a huge factor in how much they gobble. We had a low pressure system roll thru on the opener this year. It was warmer than normal and humid. Birds didn’t gobble a lot. A few days later we had high pressure and cool clear mornings and those same birds gobbled their asses off. For years we had an mid March opener and 5 bird limit. A shitload of birds died during those two weeks in March. If you could wipe out the gobbling genetic we would have. They’re still doing the same thing, we just don’t get to hunt them when it’s easy to kill one anymore.

 

[juju]

Turkeys use gobbling to get together for mating. The increase in mating from letting hens know where it is, selects for gobbling. If it doesn't gobble it's either looking at a hen, changing location or aware of a violent actor close by. Violent includes both predators and other male turkeys.

Turkeys can be conditioned against gobbling by predator pressure, but even the oldest, hardest hunted will still gobble at least once before pitching out. It may do it with its head pulled into its feathers and beak closed, but they always gobble. You just have to be able to find them without it and get close enough to hear it. The same bird will also gobble from a safe strut zone when hens are not present.

Currently many areas have so few hens gobblers are following the few which exist almost all day. These turkeys do not gobble because they are looking at a hen. This even goes on into early summer as some jennys come into season. It isn't that the turkey wouldn't gobble, it just isn't appropriate for it to gobble.

 

[Honyock]

Here in OK, we had an exceptional turkey population.
The seasons opened at the best time and a spring bag limit of 3 was satisfactory.
Last bird I killed was a fall 2019 bird.

In 2019 i had shoulder surgery and a avian pox came through.
I couldn't hunt, besides, that pox REALLY decimated the population! Where I used to see birds often, I couldn't even find a track.
Where turkeys used to roost had been vacated!
It was (is?) awful. The state reduced us to one spring bird and one fall bird. Then they moved the season opening date ten days later! Just to the last 3 or 4 days of the peak "rut"!
....but numbers are FINALLY coming back. I'm beginning to see birds where I hadn't seen them in a while.

I think the population drop was overstated by the Wildlife Department. I think some areas of the state may have seen a decline, but when you look at the number of birds killed (per the Wildlife Department website), 2024 was basically the same number as 2020. Thats with you only being able to kill one in 2024. 2021 was down, but every year since the total number killed has gone up. I hunt private land in SW Oklahoma which was supposed to be an area that was way down and we've got more turkeys on our place than we did five years ago.

 

[Amos Keeto]

I think the population drop was overstated by the Wildlife Department. I think some areas of the state may have seen a decline, but when you look at the number of birds killed (per the Wildlife Department website), 2024 was basically the same number as 2020. Thats with you only being able to kill one in 2024. 2021 was down, but every year since the total number killed has gone up. I hunt private land in SW Oklahoma which was supposed to be an area that was way down and we've got more turkeys on our place than we did five years ago.

I hunt an area where killing your 2 spring birds was relatively "easy".
Across the road was a different county. Taking your third bird was as simple as crossing the road!
After 2019, same area and you were lucky to find a track, much less see OR hear a turkey!
I only have 3 or 4 spots I can hunt turkeys, and those spots are relatively small when talking "turkey hunting". I have no room to "run 'n gun".....and I can no longer "run"! Hell, I can barely walk! LOL!
It's go in, set up, call and hope something comes your way.
So basically, my representative areas probably are not very representative.

 

[JohnnySeegs]

Tough in MN too

 

[makersmark32]

I think we take out the dumb ones are creating a situation where they just got smarter over time regardless of the species.

 

[Broomd]

They come thru our front yard several times a day. I had a tom about 25 yards behind and to the left of my 100 yard steel plate a few days ago around 2pm and he could care less. Ting Ting Ting. Pecking away at the soil.

I watched a 10" bearded tom bed down in the shade of the front yard today. Our rooster finally ran him off.

I leave our farm to turkey hunt, the birds become completely different--wild, wary and unpredictable--just away from our place.

 

[tt_johnsclist]

I’m with juju (post #4). Too many hunters, too few turkeys. The population decline is real, and significant, in the OH/KY/TN core area and south/SE. I just suffered through opening weekend in Ohio. Guys were parking empty pickups in spots the night before just to claim spots. Opening morning it took me 6 parking spots to find an empty one and a truck pulled in behind me 10 minutes after I parked. I really, really, hate to sound like an old guy pining for “the good old days” but damn…

EDIT: the number of “owls” hooting and screeching in the evenings was impressive. Thanks, THP

 

[Swamp Fox]

If hunters were able to shoot out genetic traits, there'd be no spike bucks in New York, no six-pointers in South Carolina, and no 140-class deer in Texas. LOL

Turkeys are having a hard time in a significant number of areas for a variety of reasons, and I think hunting pressure is toward the bottom of the list. But game departments can control hunting pressure more easily than other things, which is why you see decreased tags and season changes since the decline in turkey abundance caught their attention.

Habitat losses, changes, and inappropriate management haven't even been mentioned in this thread, but the studies over time all point to these prime culprits. Lack and loss of good ground to raise turkeys means less food, less ideal nesting cover, and more predators.

Interestingly, the turkey decline can be noted all the way back to 2004/2005, when official restoration efforts wound down.

Resources:

Wild turkey numbers are falling in some parts of the US – the main reason may be habitat loss

Wild turkeys were overhunted across the US through the early 1900s, but made a strong comeback. Now, though, numbers are declining again. Two ecologists parse the evidence and offer an explanation.

theconversation.com

The Wild Turkey Population Is in Decline — Why and What Can Landowners Do About It? | Whitetail Properties

Understand the decline in the wild turkey population and how landowners can help. Explore habitat management strategies and conservation efforts for turkeys.

www.whitetailproperties.com

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.ncwildlife.gov/media/3952/download?attachment

 

[juju]

I didn't think anyone was listening to chamberlain anymore after his wannabe rock star stunt with those YouTube hunt whores.

I'd like to see in-person check-ins and blood samples drawn for analysis.

 

[Swamp Fox]

@juju--

Do you have an actual point to make about what he said, or are you just typing on the internet?

 

[woods89]

I can only speak to my area in southern MO, but ......

I started turkey hunting around 2008 or so. It took me a few years to figure it out and then I killed birds with some real regularity on public until about 2016 or so. It's been really tough ever since, although numbers seem to be on the rise over the last few years.

My line has usually been the turkey hunting is about finding the bird who wants to die that day. My experience is that for the last 7-8 years I have put in a huge increase in time/hiking to find those birds. Lots of quiet days.

I don't know reasons why, everybody seems to have their pet theory. I sure do miss 2010-2015 turkey hunting sometimes though.