Are Thermal Devices Ethical For Predawn Scouting and Hiking?

[Rich M]

I had not considered daytime use of the thermal devices - had night time hog shooting on the brain.

Incredible!

 

[DanimalW]

I don’t even like rifle season much anymore. You see them and they’re dead (for people that can shoot, in most instances). It takes a lot of the fun out of it for me. In general I don’t like excessive restrictions either though. Interesting topic.

 

[Wellsdw]

swap the word thermal imager and spot light and you would probably call BS. At least spot lighting they would have and advantage of know something was up. I kinda feel like night time is their time, leave them be. And as far as a trail camera goes you are monitoring a relatively small area. That you had to at least somewhat scout.

 

[Laramie]

If it is legal, it is ethical in todays hunting world. I would caution anyone from throwing stones as we have have enough headed our direction from the other side of the fence.

I don't like most of the gadgets out there but I'm guessing what I currently use, modern basics, was frowned upon when it came out.

I personally believe the biggest unfair advantage out there from a technology standpoint is the GPS & Google Earth. Country that used to take years to learn can now be successfully navigated by a guy who never set foot there in the past.

 

[kwackkillncrew]

until animals figure out how to use thermal imaging to see me, i wont be using it on them.

 

[CoStick]

until animals figure out how to use thermal imaging to see me, i wont be using it on them.

I don’t think they can use a rifle or bow on you

 

[dirtytough]

Maybe I just have shit thermals. I can't see heat through something else. I also can't see antlers unless the deer is close. While calling coyotes last year I saw a lot of deer in the thermal. And only 2 of those deer could I see antlers on. I doubt that only 2 were bucks.

I have multiple thermals and I personally don't see them as more of an advantage than my NL's, BTX, rangefinder, trail cams on water holes, etc. I'm not just looking to kill any animal though. I personally feel its a non issue with everything else hunters are allowed to use.

 

[hibernation]

If it is legal, it is ethical in todays hunting world.

I'd normally agree with you, but not with emerging technology. Drones were pretty much legal for hunting, until they weren't. It took enough people seeing them as an issue and creating new laws to deal with it. The law had to catch up with the ethics. I'm just glad they did this before it became better established.

Thermal might be a different situation, but it's certainly new tech in terms of availability to the average hunter. I think it's worth considering if it belongs in the hunting toolkit, especially in western states where our tags are already limited.

 

[Str8shooter]

While fair chase is subjective, this battleground tech falls outside the boundary for me. The Predator reference above is onpoint, we're not hunting Arnold SchwartzenElk....

In Colorado Im glad our commission is in front of this.

Colorado Revised Statutes Title 33. Parks and Wildlife § 33-6-127. Hunting with artificial light, night vision, or thermal imaging devices​

"...it is unlawful for a person to utilize electronic night vision equipment, electronically enhanced light-gathering optics, or thermal imaging devices as an aid in hunting..."

 

[mfllood3800]

The advancement of technology does not mean hunting needs to adapt or even consider it. Hunting is by nature one of the most primal things we can do.

I honestly do not believe the States care as much about fair game as we the hunters do. What they care about is keeping herd levels sufficient to sell tags and make a profit. I truly believe if each State was given 100,000 more head of elk, deer, turkey or what ever, each and every year, they would allow more technology to attract more hunters to sell more tags to make more money.
The burden of fair chase is really on us, the chasers., not those who stand to profit off what we do.

 

[Sioux33]

This has got to go. I ran into a guy at the trailhead this year and after chatting for about 20 minutes, he says he bought a new $2,500 weapon. He shows me it and lets me look through it and it was insane, you could see everything. Plus he said you can see over a mile with it. I'm sure he picked out every elk in the basin that night. Complete BS in my book.

 

[Jardo]

until animals figure out how to use thermal imaging to see me, i wont be using it on them.

With this logic, you need to hunt with your bare hands.


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[Jardo]

While fair chase is subjective, this battleground tech falls outside the boundary for me. The Predator reference above is onpoint, we're not hunting Arnold SchwartzenElk....

In Colorado Im glad our commission is in front of this.

Colorado Revised Statutes Title 33. Parks and Wildlife § 33-6-127. Hunting with artificial light, night vision, or thermal imaging devices​

"...it is unlawful for a person to utilize electronic night vision equipment, electronically enhanced light-gathering optics, or thermal imaging devices as an aid in hunting..."

Well then it’s settled in CO.


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[Where's Bruce?]

Simple possession of a thermal scope in California will get you locked up. Know the laws when traveling with em.

 

[Jardo]

I own thermals and use them
Legally. I just find it interesting how someone I ran into a few weeks ago thought any thermal use was unethical, even for hogs and coyotes.

What’s hilarious to me is that he proceeds to pull out his $5k spotter that can see a gnats ass at 1000 yards and his new 1200 yard rifle that he plans to use on an antelope hunt. Not to mention his range finders, kestrel, and computer. He owns a compound bow and an inline ML that uses 209 primers… all of which are in his mind totally ethical.

The technology to see at night is getting better and more available. As a community, we need to decide if we embrace change or get old and set in our ways.

It’s interesting to see where people draw lines. It’s like me arguing that blue is the best color and anyone who doesn’t agree is dead ass wrong! It is great fodder and I suspect we will deal with this many more times in the coming evolution of technology.

For me, I use thermals where legal and for legal purposes. I love the technology. Nothing like watching a hog come in when it’s darker than my granny’s cooter.


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[chicoredneck]

Why would it be unethical? What’s unethical is applying and forcing someone else to follow your ethics. As long as they are not hurting you, who cares? What happened to the respect for liberty?

If you don’t want to use it fine, I understand. If you don’t like me using new tech, fine. The minute you try to force me to adhere to the way you think I should hunt through passing some law, we have a problem.

Bottom line - ethics is a personal issue and if this discussion is purely about identifying what you are going to do personally, great. If you want to pass some law limiting others ability, go pound sand.

 

[Lionhound1975]

I wouldn't use one to locate game as I think the advantage is too great over a game animal's natural defenses just like a drone would be. But I don't have a problem using a thermal device if hiking in the dark in dangerous game country. I carried a small FLIR handheld when camping in Africa and was always happy to see what was walking around just past the light from my camp fire every night. But I never used it to locate anything that I was trying to shoot.

Like some others above already said, the whole ethical argument is very subjective and open for lots of debate. Like baiting or hunting over the only waterhole in miles.

For example, which of the two below examples is more ethical:

1. A guy using a FLIR handheld scope while spot/stalk elk hunting with a recurve.

2. A guy on a guided hunt where the outfitter has lookouts with radios on several ridges and the guided hunter uses a rifle on a tripod with a scope equipped with a rangefinder and bullet drop compensator.

I personally wouldn't do either but even though #2 is legal and #1 isn't legal in a lot of places, the #1 hunter requires much more skill and the animal has a much greater chance. So the thermal advantage that the #1 hunter has is still much less in totality than the #2 hunter on the guided hunt.

Just my $0.02.

 

[hibernation]

Why would it be unethical? What’s unethical is applying and forcing someone else to follow your ethics. As long as they are not hurting you, who cares? What happened to the respect for liberty?

If you don’t want to use it fine, I understand. If you don’t like me using new tech, fine. The minute you try to force me to adhere to the way you think I should hunt through passing some law, we have a problem.

Bottom line - ethics is a personal issue and if this discussion is purely about identifying what you are going to do personally, great. If you want to pass some law limiting others ability, go pound sand.

If it's a shared public resource, then I absolutely care what other people are doing. This is why we don't allow spotlighting for deer, why wanton waste laws exist, why you can't use snares for big game. Any number of things. Just because most of these laws were settled before our time doesn't mean they sprung out of nowhere.

Maybe we collectively decide that thermals are okay for hunting, but it's still something that needs to be considered. Looks like Colorado already made a decision, but not every state has (as far as I know). Personally, I think it's totally fine for predator hunting, where seasons and bag limits are wide open. I don't see it as a good idea for states where big game opportunities are already super limited.

 

[chicoredneck]

Hibernation, Laws controlling bag limits and seasons make sense to ensure the resource is maintained. Laws that control methods of take are meaningless except to appeal to someone’s moral sensibilities if the laws did rating bag limits and seasons are enforced.

 

[Gatorgrizz27]

I hope this isn’t something people abuse until it is banned.

I‘ve just recently gotten into night vision and have been researching thermal for hog and predator hunting.

Where I think it increases ethics is recovery after the shot, in terms of a thermal monocular. I primarily hunt a 3,600 acre swamp, where it’s hard to see more than 50 yards and you aren’t going to be able to blood trail.

During archery season, I regularly climb down several minutes before sunset, when there is still plenty of shooting light, due to the fact that I don’t know that I’d be able to find the animal after giving it time to die.

I’m considering buying a thermal monocular only for recovering game, especially as my kids are getting closer to hunting age. Like I said, hopefully people don’t screw it up and make it illegal.