Are Influencers illegally guiding?

[rayporter]

he will catch one FISH for sure.

 

[MattB]

Maybe all I did was start a letter of the law vs spirit of the law discussion here.

What you did was start a what you think certain words mean versus what they actually mean discussion here.

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

Location is important. I have friends in Alaska who won't even take gas money on the boat because they're nervous about guiding or outfitting laws.

I talked the the troopers about this. Nothing wrong with someone chipping in gas money.

 

[Mojave]

It’s actually perfectly legal. WY allows a “resident guide” to take two non-resident hunters per season. You have to fill out a form at a WY Game & Fish office but it’s free.

They will ask you questions to ensure the relationship is not a transactional one in nature and that you do in fact know the person.

It would be transactional if you were using points their points. How would it not?

 

[Mike Islander]

I wouldn't expect many people to care about this sort of thing until they notice it happen in a place they actually go. Do you want extra unnecesary outfitter activity in places you like to hunt or fish?

My above example is occurring in a heavily used (fished) area that already sees significant fishing outfitter activity. I bet the outfitters that went through the process of getting permits would rather this not take place as well.

Outfitters, and their guests, don't have any exclusive rights to legal fishing grounds.

Most importantly is you haven't made your case that they're illegally guiding. Address that one way or the other, and maybe your posts will make some sort of sense.

 

[Nickofthewoods]

Outfitters, and their guests, don't have any exclusive rights to legal fishing grounds.

Most importantly is you haven't made your case that they're illegally guiding. Address that one way or the other, and maybe your posts will make some sort of sense.

The case I was attempting to make was that one person stands to make a profit by taking another person on a fishing trip that strongly resembles a guide/client scenario, but without having to obtain any permits or licensing.

It's probably not a big deal and likely doesn't happen enough to be problematic. I just thought it was an interesting scenario and wanted to see what other people thought about it.

 

[Marble]

The case I was attempting to make was that one person stands to make a profit by taking another person on a fishing trip that strongly resembles a guide/client scenario, but without having to obtain any permits or licensing.

It's probably not a big deal and likely doesn't happen enough to be problematic. I just thought it was an interesting scenario and wanted to see what other people thought about it.

I see what you're getting at. The difference is that the influencer is making a video and going through the entire process of posting it. He is profiting off (being compensated) of his actions from people who are entirely uninvolved with the process. It's two to three steps beyond the hunt. There is no compensation occurring between the hunter and influencer. If anything, the influencer is compensating the hunter by providing the experience.

So the influencer isn't making a profit simply by taking another person hunting. They make a profit by using the content of the hunt and making it into a format where people want to watch it.

I'm yet to see a camera crew in the woods. And, I hope I never do.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

 

[cuerro viejo]

Recently I came across a fishing "influencer" type on YouTube who has some sort of sweepstakes for his subscribers in which they win a day of fishing with him on public waters. This youtuber has well over 10k subscribers but is probably still considered a small player in the outdoor space. Nevertheless, according to various sources that still qualifies for Youtube adsense revenue in the range of anywhere between $500-$1500/month (from what info I could loosely find online). Not a terrible side hustle if accurate. However, when I looked up the entities with special use permits for the particular water they were fishing I could not find this person's name or the name of their YouTube channel so unless they operate under a totally different name I don't think they are allowed to guide there. So this is a roundabout way for people to become guides/outfitters without having to apply for outfitting permits? And unlike traditional Outfitters who must apply for permitting of specific areas these people can literally go anywhere and do this type of thing. If they are making money from SM by advertising "free" trips on that SM platform and then posting videos of that trip which in turn gets them more viewers subscriptions and ultimately more money, how is this not illegally guiding when on public lands? Just because no money directly changes hands? Also, they use different verbage other than "guided" in their ads such as "win a day on the water with us" but we all know what's really happening.

Depends on state. Most states don’t require a license to guide on fresh water, the absolute exception is salt, then Captains/six pack licenses comes into play.

As far as hunting depends on state

 

[Kyguy]

I think that if you've got enough spare time in your day to actually be looking into this and worrying about what a Youtuber is doing, you either need to spend more time working or doing something productive, or get out and actually do more stuff to keep you occupied. Let the authorities worry about it, if people don't think that Fish and Wildllife depts are actively monitoring social media platforms, they're delusional. I've been told by a local one that at this point, they bust more poachers/illegal fishing than ever and most of the reason is because of social media.

 

[TheTone]

The case I was attempting to make was that one person stands to make a profit by taking another person on a fishing trip that strongly resembles a guide/client scenario, but without having to obtain any permits or licensing.

It's probably not a big deal and likely doesn't happen enough to be problematic. I just thought it was an interesting scenario and wanted to see what other people thought about it.

It’s probably commercial use as you describe it and they should probably have some sort of permitting for it. The hunting and I’d guess fishing worlds are full of people that should be getting commercial filming permits but they don’t and they’re actively trying to get legislation passed to make it easier for them to film on public lands

I think some influencers are really pushing the boundaries of guiding. I know one that was raffling off chances to hunt with him with everything included except tag and license. To me that’s outfitting

 

[tdhanses]

Could the cost of the hunt and gear that’s often given away be considered payment? Kind of opposite payment. Haha

How is the person making payment by receiving free gear from said guide, kinda backwards as the client/person isn’t giving the guide free gear.

 

[tdhanses]

It would be transactional if you were using points their points. How would it not?

Probably not, each person still has to pay the same no matter how many points they have, points have no value when used, we don’t get a free tag in WY when we use our 10pts on a general tag.

 

[Billy Goat]

I think that if you've got enough spare time in your day to actually be looking into this and worrying about what a Youtuber is doing, you either need to spend more time working or doing something productive, or get out and actually do more stuff to keep you occupied. Let the authorities worry about it, if people don't think that Fish and Wildllife depts are actively monitoring social media platforms, they're delusional. I've been told by a local one that at this point, they bust more poachers/illegal fishing than ever and most of the reason is because of social media.

I think this is the result of being out, otherwise occupied, and then dealing with influencers.


It doesn't take much info at all for spots to be blown up. Carrying capacity for hunters or anglers in areas is pretty small. It doesn't take much to screw up an area.

 

[doc holiday13]

I hope they catch some good fish.

Awfully embarrassing to have someone go fishing with a "Pro" that hooked up a random draw person and not catch great footage "for the gram"

 

[TSAMP]

Wait...what IF the guy who wins and spends a day fishing with this Alpha level influencer then feels compelled to give a tip and show his gratitude. I know we all like a good tip thread.

 

[*zap*]

the gratuity is mandated/included.....

 

[Mojave]

Probably not, each person still has to pay the same no matter how many points they have, points have no value when used, we don’t get a free tag in WY when we use our 10pts on a general tag.

You are heavily mistaken if you think they do not have value. People are offering thousands of dollars to skip the point line, and are offering to pay for peoples tags applications and more.

 

[wytx]

You are heavily mistaken if you think they do not have value. People are offering thousands of dollars to skip the point line, and are offering to pay for peoples tags applications and more.

And it is legal in Wyoming to do so, WG&F knows well what happens with PP averaging.
Outfitters do it every year as well and they sure make money off the hunters booked by PP averaging.

 

[tdhanses]

You are heavily mistaken if you think they do not have value. People are offering thousands of dollars to skip the point line, and are offering to pay for peoples tags applications and more.

Ok so what will you pay for 3pts? Also when I say no value it’s no value WY cares about for now but they’ll find a way I’m sure to add a surcharge to group apps. Group apps don’t make you a guide/outfitter and if your willing to pay to hop in a group app that’s your choice but you still have to buy a license/tag if drawn and you aren’t forced to hunt with everyone in the group app.

 

[wapitibob]

You're not buying points, you're paying for the opportunity to join a party app.