AR Cartridge for Hunting

[silasbowhunter]

I would love to know the build specs of your uncle's 6.5 CM AR10 build because I have a Seekins SP10 that I put a 6.5CM Proof CFW barrel on and it ways pounds, not ounces, more than either of my Tikka bolt rifles.

I’ll talk to him around Christmas. My jaw was literally on the floor when he handed it to me. I know it was a side charging AR10 with a Carbon barrel lol all I remember what he said


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BigNate]

You all hunt deer with .223 Sierra Match Kings? Are these head shots?

Can someone post the link to the thread on this? Would like to hear more.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

This was my doe exit, 80 yards, 77gr. TMK, out of a 16" 5.56. Not perfect as she turned to run as the shot broke but it does plenty of ventilation.

 

[CMuehl]

The 6 ARC is better than the 6.5 Grendel in nearly every aspect. I like and use/used the Grendel- the 6 ARC is what the Grendel should have been. Less recoil, better BC for usable weight bullets, better terminal effects past close/mid range due to increased impact velocity, good factory readily ammo, etc.

Thanks for your input. Do you have any real world velocity data to support this? I'm just going off the reloading manuals and I'm seeing less than 20fps in favor of the ARC. I'd like to have some actual numbers to compare them though. I know if you shoot it out of a bolt action you can increase the velocity gap between two but out of an AR you can't load either of them too hot.

 

[silasbowhunter]

Thanks for your input. Do you have any real world velocity data to support this? I'm just going off the reloading manuals and I'm seeing less than 20fps in favor of the ARC. I'd like to have some actual numbers to compare them though. I know if you shoot it out of a bolt action you can increase the velocity gap between two but out of an AR you can't load either of them too hot.

I’ve never even heard of a grendel getting above 2550fps.. the 6mm ARC is supposed to be way faster than that.. interested to see some real world speed though

 

[Stinky Coyote]

The 6 ARC is better than the 6.5 Grendel in nearly every aspect. I like and use/used the Grendel- the 6 ARC is what the Grendel should have been. Less recoil, better BC for usable weight bullets, better terminal effects past close/mid range due to increased impact velocity, good factory readily ammo, etc.

like most 6mm's that try to get pushed into the big game world they all seem to end up relegated to class 2 game recommendations as just don't seem to throw enough weight or diam downrange to be as versatile as most like which is 120gr and 6.5mm or above...well the Grendel gets there and those 123's have 3rd class game approved SD over .250 (.252) and there's much to love about the velocity range of the 6.5 Grendel with those eld-m's in terms of not driving them too fast for their construction for game intended...which is exactly what the ARC does, sure the ARC adds 150-175 yards effective range but its going to give up that on the front end as it's too fast for those fantastic higher sd 103-108's that would be mandatory

so this is the story of the ARC, when you go up against the 6.5 Grendel you find to gain in one or two areas you give up too much in a few other areas, nothing balances as well as the 6.5 Grendel, there's equality on all the points you may consider in the equation, it's all likely to happen inside 600 yards with only burning 30 grains of powder and in that window the Grendel is your father

you aren't going to get more efficient(versatile) than the 6.5 Grendel in the AR platform, change my mind

 

[Formidilosus]

like most 6mm's that try to get pushed into the big game world they all seem to end up relegated to class 2 game recommendations as just don't seem to throw enough weight or diam downrange to be as versatile as most like which is 120gr and 6.5mm or above...well the Grendel gets there and those 123's have 3rd class game approved SD over .250 (.252)

“class 2 game”? Are reading a Winchester ammo box?

and there's much to love about the velocity range of the 6.5 Grendel with those eld-m's in terms of not driving them too fast for their construction for game intended...which is exactly what the ARC does, sure the ARC adds 150-175 yards effective range but its going to give up that on the front end as it's too fast for those fantastic higher sd 103-108's that would be mandatory

How many medium to big fame animals have you killed with 6’mms? And how many with “103-108’s”?

so this is the story of the ARC, when you go up against the 6.5 Grendel you find to gain in one or two areas you give up too much in a few other areas, nothing balances as well as the 6.5 Grendel, there's equality on all the points you may consider in the equation, it's all likely to happen inside 600 yards with only burning 30 grains of powder and in that window the Grendel is your father

you aren't going to get more efficient(versatile) than the 6.5 Grendel in the AR platform, change my mind

The 6ARC costs nothing over a Grendel but slightly reduced barrel life. Almost nothing you wrote is factually correct.

 

[Formidilosus]

Thanks for your input. Do you have any real world velocity data to support this?

I don’t talk about things I don’t do/haven’t done.

I'm just going off the reloading manuals and I'm seeing less than 20fps in favor of the ARC.

Stop looking an same weight and start looking at same BC. There isn’t a single bullet that can be loaded in a Grendel that will beat any high BC 95-115gr 6mm in an ARC.

 

[MikeDeltaFoxtrot]

I have a 10.5" SBR in 300 BLK. Noveske barrel and upper with a Midwest Industries keymod rail and an AAC can. I built it for short range deer hunting. I think I have taken it hunting once and never shot anything with it.

I have a Larue UUK Larue frame rifle in .308 with a 20" bbl. It is the hotness. It gets the nod every time if I want to hunt with a semi auto. Anything that fits in a standard AR is a compromise in my opinion.

Have fun with your project and shoot what makes you happy. Jut my $.02.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

“class 2 game”? Are reading a Winchester ammo box?

How many medium to big fame animals have you killed with 6’mms? And how many with “103-108’s”?

The 6ARC costs nothing over a Grendel but slightly reduced barrel life. Almost nothing you wrote is factually correct.

Yup, barrel life = loss.
Under 6.5mm and 120gr = loss.
Gain 150-175 yard effective range over 600 yards where no one will likely shoot big game with a little 6mm and push the little 100gr pills too fast for the first 150-175 yards they will shed their sd so fast as they come apart too quickly and penetration won't match the slower Grendel = loss, loss, loss.
400 yards in the ribs of an elk...hmmm 123gr 6.5...or 103 gr 6mm...sorry bud, the 6.5 Grendel is your father.

Killed lots with .243 and had several over the decades. Usually ran 95's but shut'r down around 300 yards and kept to deer. I will out ballistics nerd you anyway so try not to make too many assumptions, it always works to attack the messenger when you struggle with the message there hotshot.

The two most efficient uses of powder going are the 6.5g and the 6.5cm...they don't have weakness like you get when you mess with their formula, like the 6mm's always do. I know it hurts...but you'll get over it.

Let me know when you're 10 for 10 on big game with the ARC and we can chat again.

Now granted, that was fun and I think the 6mm ARC is a brilliant cartridge and it's basically the closest thing we can get to a factory 6 dasher going and I have mad respect for the numbers. I also believe the ARC will become way more popular as there are far more steel/target pushers than hunters willing to do 6mm...so I'm a fan and in support of the ARC as the more platforms that come available in the ARC just mean more platforms that will be just a barrel swap away from the best hunting option lol.

So, you'll see I like the ARC, but it is NOT the best all-round choice for hunting or otherwise from an AR platform...the Grendel will own this spot for all of the 21st century. That 123gr eld-m is an incredible bullet, and the case is ideal for it, essentially a 3/4 scale 308 running a modern 168 with 55% less recoil....how could any 6mm option hope to run with that when fielding against furry tomatoes? It can't...it'll do alright and better than most would think a 6mm could do but it won't be the better of the two, only on steel past 6-700, too many penalties otherwise.

Everything I wrote is factually correct. It'll be ok. Promise.

Edit, here... It'll take you a little time to throw down and we are splitting hairs somewhat between the two but your bold statement saying the ARC is better is just incorrect. The 6mm Creedmoor will never out versatile the 6.5 and it won't happen with the Grendel case either. 6.5's for the win, best do it all balance, ultimate efficiency. https://www.instagram.com/65grendelhunters/

 

[Zappaman]

6.8 SPC, Federal Gold Dot 115s, AA2200, 16” Green Mountain barrel, Weaver K6 scope, 5 round clip… feels like a toy gun @ about 7 lbs. Pigs up to 250 lbs. are usually a pass through out to 250 yards… drops them without too much meat loss (I butcher and eat pigs just like my deer). Groups 3” or better at 250… lightest gun I own and quickly becoming the #1 hunting gun for ANYTHING shot inside 200 yards.

My last pig hunt in March filled the truck with three pigs shot in about 10 seconds. I butchered for two weeks! Now I need another freezer with three deer this year (with one more to go in a few weeks). Good problem to have!

 

[Formidilosus]

Yup, barrel life = loss.
Under 6.5mm and 120gr = loss.
Gain 150-175 yard effective range over 600 yards where no one will likely shoot big game with a little 6mm and push the little 100gr pills too fast for the first 150-175 yards they will shed their sd so fast as they come apart too quickly and penetration won't match the slower Grendel = loss, loss, loss.
400 yards in the ribs of an elk...hmmm 123gr 6.5...or 103 gr 6mm...sorry bud, the 6.5 Grendel is your father.

Exactly how much penetration will a 103gr ELD-X or 108gr ELD-M give with impact speeds under 2,700fps from your personal experience?

Killed lots with .243 and had several over the decades. Usually ran 95's but shut'r down around 300 yards and kept to deer. I will out ballistics nerd you anyway so try not to make too many assumptions

Are you twelve? What does out ballistics me mean?

Let me know when you're 10 for 10 on big game with the ARC and we can chat again.

I killed more than ten big game animals the first week I used a Grendel. I’ve killed more than ten big game animals with every bullet you’ve mentioned, in every cartridge you’ve mentioned.

Edit, here... It'll take you a little time to throw down and we are splitting hairs somewhat between the two but your bold statement saying the ARC is better is just incorrect. The 6mm Creedmoor will never out versatile the 6.5 and it won't happen with the Grendel case either. 6.5's for the win, best do it all balance, ultimate efficiency. https://www.instagram.com/65grendelhunters/

Throw down? Again, are you twelve? I don’t care about Instagram- I’m not a child. You’re writing nonsense.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

Exactly how much penetration will a 103gr ELD-X or 108gr ELD-M give with impact speeds under 2,700fps from your personal experience?

Are you twelve? What does out ballistics me mean?

I killed more than ten big game animals the first week I used a Grendel. I’ve killed more than ten big game animals with every bullet you’ve mentioned, in every cartridge you’ve mentioned.

Throw down? Again, are you twelve? I don’t care about Instagram- I’m not a child. You’re writing nonsense.

What have you killed with your ARC? You sure sound impressive, or like a big ole bag of hot air, not sure which way I’m leaning yet but you do have a warm cuddly approach. I don’t choose losing arguments but I see you’re deflecting from the subject at hand with how big your unit is. Tell us again how the ARC is better than the Grendel as an AR hunting cartridge? Be nice to hear of some of your ARC kills while you’re at it. I agree someone sounds 12 here. Anyway, take a deep breath, and let’s roll through this ‘best AR cartridge’ debate like we’re a little older.

Ps ever heard the term ‘out a-hole someone’? ‘Out ballistics nerd you’...in other words I’ll hang with you on the ballistics talk just fine, I’m fluent. Now put it back in your pants and win your argument please.

 

[doverpack12]

I have a 20” barrel Grendel in AR15 platform and really like it. I built it for wolf hunting since I wanted more range than a 223 and quick follow up shots. That was before the 6 ARC was released or I would have probably gone that route.
I load 130 Berger AR OTM Hybrids at 2390 fps. Gets me to 550 yards most days staying in the velocity expansion window. I’ve shot 3 antelope with this Grendel and performance was great on shots ranging from 50 yards to 350.
It shoots as well as I do which is far better than MOA out to 650 which is as far as I have shot this combo.
Currently waiting to get through another brass cycle then going to finish developing a 129 ABLR load which will take my max performance window out to 950 most days. (This is for wolves, they are tough to get shots on)
I wouldn’t use my Grendel on elk although I’m sure it would be just fine inside 300 yards. I’ve shot many cow elk with my 260 and 130 ELDM with excellent performance.

For reference I’m also working on a 223 77 TMK AR load based on Forms data. Really excited to try that bullet out. I drop below 1800 fps in the 350 yard range or just over. For me and my purposes I want more distance for on game performance but I will keep some ready to fill doe tags.

Factory ammo from my 20” Grendel
Hornady 123 SST 2450 fps
Hornady 123 ELDM Black 2490 fps
Federal 130 GMM (Berger AR OTM Hybrid) 2360 fps
Shot some others but don’t remember the velocities. One nosler 129 ABLR that was pretty hot and one AA with 129 ABLR I think.

 

[menhaden_man]

I’ve got a decent pile of AR15s also finally finished an AR10 (heavy is right). I do love my Grendels and Blackouts, but unless you reload the 223W 1/7 twist is the best bet. Even if you do reload it’s still probably the best bet. I’d shop for ammo or reloading components before you buy anything... that might help with the choice. Good luck!

 

[menhaden_man]

I have a 20” barrel Grendel in AR15 platform and really like it. I built it for wolf hunting since I wanted more range than a 223 and quick follow up shots. That was before the 6 ARC was released or I would have probably gone that route.
I load 130 Berger AR OTM Hybrids at 2390 fps. Gets me to 550 yards most days staying in the velocity expansion window. I’ve shot 3 antelope with this Grendel and performance was great on shots ranging from 50 yards to 350.
It shoots as well as I do which is far better than MOA out to 650 which is as far as I have shot this combo.
Currently waiting to get through another brass cycle then going to finish developing a 129 ABLR load which will take my max performance window out to 950 most days. (This is for wolves, they are tough to get shots on)
I wouldn’t use my Grendel on elk although I’m sure it would be just fine inside 300 yards. I’ve shot many cow elk with my 260 and 130 ELDM with excellent performance.

For reference I’m also working on a 223 77 TMK AR load based on Forms data. Really excited to try that bullet out. I drop below 1800 fps in the 350 yard range or just over. For me and my purposes I want more distance for on game performance but I will keep some ready to fill doe tags.

Factory ammo from my 20” Grendel
Hornady 123 SST 2450 fps
Hornady 123 ELDM Black 2490 fps
Federal 130 GMM (Berger AR OTM Hybrid) 2360 fps
Shot some others but don’t remember the velocities. One nosler 129 ABLR that was pretty hot and one AA with 129 ABLR I think.

Check out the Cavity Back Bullets, my ten year old daughter got her first deer with the 6.5G last month. The deer was dead before it hit the ground, she made a great shot tho. They make a 105 and 118 gr I think.

 

[doverpack12]

Check out the Cavity Back Bullets, my ten year old daughter got her first deer with the 6.5G last month. The deer was dead before it hit the ground, she made a great shot tho. They make a 105 and 118 gr I think.

I would likely go with a 99 Hammer first. 130 Bergers shoot so well I haven’t messed with any monos. I did order a PRI extended mag from CBB though.

 

[yycyak]

I thought I smelled the stank of an outdoorsmenforum.ca-esque ballistics jerkoffery-type comment waft by...

When are you going to tell the thread that, up here, we could never legally hunt with AR's? Or, that AR's are illegal now and We The North can't own them? So by all means, please continue with your expertise on a platform that you can't even shoot/use...

What have you killed with your ARC? You sure sound impressive, or like a big ole bag of hot air, not sure which way I’m leaning yet but you do have a warm cuddly approach. I don’t choose losing arguments but I see you’re deflecting from the subject at hand with how big your unit is. Tell us again how the ARC is better than the Grendel as an AR hunting cartridge? Be nice to hear of some of your ARC kills while you’re at it. I agree someone sounds 12 here. Anyway, take a deep breath, and let’s roll through this ‘best AR cartridge’ debate like we’re a little older.

Ps ever heard the term ‘out a-hole someone’? ‘Out ballistics nerd you’...in other words I’ll hang with you on the ballistics talk just fine, I’m fluent. Now put it back in your pants and win your argument please.

Edit: spelling etc

 

[Actual_Cryptid]

Grendel is my pick in the short/mini/STANAG action. I have friends that use .223 without issue, but I personally have my doubts about my ability to make good hits (from a hunting perspective) with the .223 at extended ranges. Low recoil, available, efficient, I can get lead-free monos (the wife insists), stock up 123 ELD for target or rainy day, and eventually we might get more of that cheap wolf 100gr.

I can personally recommend the 2A Armament AR10 receivers if you want something light in a .308 semiauto. With adjustable gas you can smooth out the recoil impulse as well. Only downside is it cost about what my Sig Cross did and weighs more, but on the upside with a TA01 ACOG it's a much quicker rifle when standing or on a knee. Do recommend a suppressor if you can for a .308 with less than a 20" barrel, or at least some kind of blast mitigation device.

 

[Glendon Mullins]

6.5 grendel and dont look back

 

[Stinky Coyote]

I thought I smelled the stank of an outdoorsmenforum.ca-esque ballistics jerkoffery-type comment waft by...

When are you going to tell the thread that up here we could never legally hunt with AR's? Or, that AR's are illegal now and We The North can't own them? So by all means, please continue with your expertise on a platform that you can't even shoot/use...

ah you're correct, I made the assumption that discussion AR cartridge choices meant 2.26" OAL length cartridges that will feed through AR auto-loaders, or bolt actions

do you use the caveat when you comment about your 30-06 bolt action? that the 30-06 was designed to feed well in machine guns? but you use it in a bolt action because it works there too? military stuff all designed to go through machine guns crossing over to civilian use, like the 308, like the .223, like the 6.5 Grendel, but if you'd like to hang a messenger based on a technicality then I will gladly correct myself here, we can caveat the shizzo out of the rest of the discussion to try and stay on topic

the 6.5 Grendel is the best AR 'length' or 'compatible' hunting cartridge available for AR or bolt action platforms, the 6mm ARC is a close #2 imo but gives up in a few areas to gain in only one area

ps if auto-loaders can feed it, it's a piece of cake for bolt actions, seems we were discussion the cartridges themselves far more than the platform in this thread, someone called out the ARC as the best and I disagree, then willy measuring contest ensues and then we get back to the subject, I'm right, he's wrong, we don't need to get all emotional about it, objective and subjective information is available to solve this little argument

and nothing say about the other guys types of comments 'waft'? biased perhaps?