AR-15 10 Shot Group Size?

[MTMeatHunter]

New to ARs. I have a 16” Daniel Defense with a factory trigger that is stagey and I’d guess is around 4 pounds. Trijicon 1-4x LPVO. Just shot a 12 round group at 100 yards with factory 73gr ELDM that measured 2.5”. Shot prone off a rear bag and front rest. I don’t think I’m disappointed, but should I be expecting a lot better?

For reference, the last 10 shot group I shot with my Tikka in 270 win measured .85”.

 

[wind gypsy]

Never shot much for groups at 4x so it’s hard sayin.

 

[RockAndSage]

Normal. And, frankly, everything you need for what you need an DD AR15 for. You're good.

 

[MTMeatHunter]

Shooting groups at 4x was definitely interesting but it was the 4# trigger that I could really tell was not helping. Used to my Tikka triggers all dialed down and crisp…

 

[Steve The Killer Llama]

I don’t have experience With DD but my factory Ruger keeps em inside 3” at 100 (hammer forged barrel) budget accuracy.
I also have a Frankenstein build with an 18” gunner profile barrel that opens up to about 7-8” after 5 shots… hope that helps

 

[Caseknife]

Many options for a/m triggers if you think that is what is holding you up. Don't expect a 10 round group under an inch with an AR-15 unless it has had LOTS of work done to it.

 

[MTMeatHunter]

An aftermarket trigger crossed my mind, but at the same time, if I want to shoot sub inch groups I’d grab a bolt gun from the safe. Just kinda curious what I should expect with the setup as it sits. I have pretty much zero reference. Thanks for the thoughts so far!

 

[ProRoad]

I am very new to ARs and have built 3 since March. 6ARC, 22ARC and .223. (the .223 has a 1-6 scope and my groups are 2-3 inches) I have experienced loose groups but with the right ammo, they are under an inch with the right setup. (4-16 scope) Try some different ammo and it may tighten up. Also, as everyone knows, your tightest groups come with handloads, factory can be all over the place. I have a new Geissele 2 stage trigger that I have fired about 20 times freehand. I think it will blow my mind when I finally get a scope on that build. (Now I know what all the hype is about) But yea, a 2.5 inch group out of a 16" barreled AR is gonna get the job done.

 

[RockAndSage]

OP, this post is one of the most valuable sources of realistic info you're going to get on rifle accuracy expectations vs reality, anywhere on the internet. It's 100% worth reading. Anyone claiming they're getting a sub-MOA group with anything, please read this thread too.

This is my summary in my own learning within that thread, but the entire thing is a goldmine for genuinely understanding reality.

 

[1000yards]

I have a 16" PWS that shoots factory Black Hills just over an inch for ten shots. Scope is normally at 9x and the only mod is a geissele trigger. I have no idea if this is normal or not.

 

[chuckD]

You should be expecting better

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

New to ARs. I have a 16” Daniel Defense with a factory trigger that is stagey and I’d guess is around 4 pounds. Trijicon 1-4x LPVO. Just shot a 12 round group at 100 yards with factory 73gr ELDM that measured 2.5”. Shot prone off a rear bag and front rest. I don’t think I’m disappointed, but should I be expecting a lot better?

For reference, the last 10 shot group I shot with my Tikka in 270 win measured .85”.

Might try some different ammo, but 2-something MOA is pretty par for the course for a non-accuracy-oritented AR15. Any semi-auto has a lot going against it for precision class accuracy because they require fundamentally sloppier headspace than a bolt gun does for reliability. It's also a fact that banging loaded rounds into the chamber with a lot of speed and force from a high tension spring tends to rough the bullets up a bit (in some cases causing runnout), and bleeding pressure to run the BCG isn't typically great for ES/SD, etc. You get the idea - to make the gun run in such a way you'd say to yourself "I would trust my life to this thing going bang every mother loving time I pull the trigger, clean or dirty, hot or cold, etc" requires certain trade-offs of the very things that typically contribute to awesome accuracy.

All that said, you can build or buy an AR15 that's pretty accurate, but the extra-accurate kind doesn't come with a CMV chrome lined barrel with a 5.56 chamber; the really accurate ones come with stainless barrels and some variation of a match grade chamber (223 Wylde or similar). It's a trade off though - the extra-accurate AR's aren't usually in the same class of combat-worthy-ness as your DD.

All that's a lot of words to say, you need to buy or build another AR15 or three.

 

[coya]

Pretty eye opening to see the difference in 10 shot group size from bolt gun to AR.
My 11.5 with acog shot a 2.4 10 shot group with factory 73 eldm. The gun despises black hills & bonefrog 77 tmk which i found surprising since its a 7 twist

 

[Bluefish]

I have one upper than came from a national match shooter, 20” kreiger barrel. It’s well under 1” at 100. I also have a 16” GI chrome barrel that’s closer to 4”. So it really depends. Personally the 4” barrel is not good enough and I only use it with a red dot as it’s not accurate enough for any precision work.

 

[RWT]

I spent a lot of $ chasing a 5 shot sub MOA group in an AR for a Pdog hunt. Ended up taking my bolt guns. It can be done but IMO the three areas to focus on in order are barrel, barrel fit in the upper and trigger. Mine shoots it just fine now, however, I shoot the bolt guns much better. So much easier to get behind a bolt and settle in than an AR. I currently have it for sale if interested.

 

[grfox92]

10 shot group. Bone stock S&W M&P 15.

55gr V Max Fiocchi factory ammo.

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