Anyone have problems doing strict carnivore?

[taskswap]

We weren't evolved to eat only meat. Think through what our ancestors would have eaten. On average, probably plants, grains, and berries most days, and a deer a week if we were doing well. One day a week, we'd probably go hungry. We'd change what we ate by what was fresh that season.

Humans are opportunistic omnivores. Some of our "edge" came from that variety, because we got a broader range of micronutrients and trace elements than other species. You can survive on nothing but roast beef sandwiches, but that doesn't make it ideal. So yes, probably lots of folks have issues from a meat-only diet - gout, constipation, that sort of thing.

But the original question is either too broad or too misleading. There's really no such thing as a 100%-strict "carnivore diet" for humans - without at least SOME fiber and the vitamins we get from plants, we'd die of simple stuff like scurvy just like 1600's sailors did. What do you really want to know?

 

[*zap*]

I do not believe you can get scurvy from just eating meat, organs, eggs and fish. I believe that has been proven.

I am not trying to steer the discussion. Just want to know what issues anyone may have had.

Broad questions elicit more responses and i want knowledge from experienced people.

 

[taskswap]

Experienced people doesn't include doctors, though, right? Scurvy is caused by vitamin C deficiency, and you can't get vitamin C from meat. I mean, this is hundreds of years of knowledge and experience, it's not an opinion. It just doesn't seem like a serious question.

 

[*zap*]

Plenty of doctors will certify that you will not get scurvy from only eating carnivore diet.

 

[Spoonbill]

I’ve never tried to do it for 30+ days since I always started craving fruits and vegetables after a day. I found I feel the best when I stick with a meat and greens type diet with some fruit mixed in. Not sure if that is helpful but thats just my experience every time I have attempted the carnivore diet.

 

[Marbles]

Experienced people doesn't include doctors, though, right? Scurvy is caused by vitamin C deficiency, and you can't get vitamin C from meat. I mean, this is hundreds of years of knowledge and experience, it's not an opinion. It just doesn't seem like a serious question.

Process and cooked food is the issue with vitamin C. An adult man needs 90 mg per day, but 10 mg per day is likely enough to avoid scurvy. Raw beef contains 1.6-2.5 mcg/g. So, 2.2 pounds of beef gives one at least 1.6 mg if consumed raw. Organ meet has higher levels, the lower the cooking temp, the less will be destroyed.

Cooking veggies also destroys vitamin C.

Sailors eat lots of dried and preserved foods, which is why they were prone to scurvy. It was the lack of fresh food, they certainly did not only eat meat.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

Do it,just pop a quality multi vitamin to fill the gaps.Stick to it for a month and see how it goes,if ok go another month and if you make it that far you will probably see some changes you can actually document.
Doctors,nutritionist etc are usually speculating because they have never done it as well as most people.
Look at the person and how they live there life before taking any advise.Book or fourm knowledge does not work in the nutrition/fitness space.
As with all diets it’s absolutely individual.

 

[5MilesBack]

I have never done a "carnivore only" diet, but I do eat a lot of meat including lots of bacon. I have some form of meat every meal. In fact, when I got married I told my wife that I didn't care what else was on the table just so there was some form of dead animal. Since I do most of the cooking, there are many meals where I eat only meat. I don't like vegetables, and only like certain fruits. But I don't think I've ever met any "dead carbs" or dairy items that I didn't like......desserts, pizza, chips, cereal, mashed potatoes, milk, cheese, butter, etc. I go through about two gallons of milk every week.

I eat what I eat (I ate only ribeye steaks for four meals in a row a couple months ago). I haven't noticed any health issues from this diet yet after 58 years.

 

[taskswap]

Process and cooked food is the issue with vitamin C. An adult man needs 90 mg per day, but 10 mg per day is likely enough to avoid scurvy. Raw beef contains 1.6-2.5 mcg/g. So, 2.2 pounds of beef gives one at least 1.6 mg if consumed raw. Organ meet has higher levels, the lower the cooking temp, the less will be destroyed.

It's a good point but the OP was about the carnivore diet. I haven't seen that described as 2+lbs of RAW meat eaten daily nor have I seen anybody suggest that's what you should eat. Even the original proponent, Baker doesn't call for that. So say you cook it to medium-rare. Exactly how much "less" will be destroyed? I've never seen anybody report a precise measurement of the Vitamin C remaining after cooking meat to medium-rare. Do you need to eat double to still get enough? 4lbs? Maybe 6?

I'm with Coopsdaddy on this one, I think at the very least you'd want a daily multivitamin. I didn't do strict carnivore myself which is why I didn't report my own experience, but I've done keto twice, which has a lot in common (once straight keto and once the Whole 30) and that's what I did. I can't say for sure the vitamin helped, but it didn't hurt either and it was a cheap, easy way to cover all the bases.

 

[Marbles]

It's a good point but the OP was about the carnivore diet. I haven't seen that described as 2+lbs of RAW meat eaten daily nor have I seen anybody suggest that's what you should eat. Even the original proponent, Baker doesn't call for that. So say you cook it to medium-rare. Exactly how much "less" will be destroyed? I've never seen anybody report a precise measurement of the Vitamin C remaining after cooking meat to medium-rare. Do you need to eat double to still get enough? 4lbs? Maybe 6?

I'm with Coopsdaddy on this one, I think at the very least you'd want a daily multivitamin. I didn't do strict carnivore myself which is why I didn't report my own experience, but I've done keto twice, which has a lot in common (once straight keto and once the Whole 30) and that's what I did. I can't say for sure the vitamin helped, but it didn't hurt either and it was a cheap, easy way to cover all the bases.

Carnivore is certainly more likely to cause vitamin D deficiency than many styles of eating, but the point is an informed person can avoid it.

When a nutrient is being measured in mcg and you need mg (1 mg=1000 mcg) it is certainly something that should be intentionally considered. Rather than trying to eat 13 pounds of raw beef a day to avoid scurvy, someone should eat organ meat or take a supplement. It also takes 8-12 weeks for scurvy to develop, and most people probably don't go for long enough.

Also, vitamin C destruction occurs most at above 176 F, so chicken livers can even be cooked in a way that preserves mot vitamin C, and at 17.6 mg per 100 g (a little over 3 ounces) someone can even get enough vitamin C for immune health.

It really depends on how the individual implements it. Other potential problems will depend on the individuals genetics.

While I would not recommend a carnivore diet, overblown concerns just make it harder to share good information.

 

[*zap*]

Do it, Stick to it for a month and see how it goes, if ok go another month and if you make it that far you will probably see some changes you can actually document.

just finished 3 months of it. pretty strict red meat, eggs, bacon, tallow, wild fish.

 

[Leverwalker]

Thanks.

You bet. Good luck. There's a lot been said here on the difficulty of following many kinds of diets, and I agree with most of what's been said - I find it difficult to get good information, in part because there's so much out there, in part because a good part of it (i.e., coming from "authoritative" sources) flatly contradict each other, and in part because as has been mentioned above, each one of us is so completely different. And finally, in part, because we have to really know the methodologies used and presumptions made in any study - which actually may point to possible flaws, making the study suspect for any useful information.

For instance, the study I mentioned, the pair of nordic MD's who did a controlled, in-hospital study on a strict carnivore diet. Again my memory is a bit hazy but IIRC, they based a lot of their hypotheses on their study of the inuit, their overwhelmingly meat-and-blubber based diet, and their incredibly healthy blood assay markers, which they found paradoxical.

A flaw in their work, in my opinion, is that they didn't take into account the fact that the inuit have been doing this since pre-recorded history so the population pool has adapted incredibly tightly to such a paradigm. You can't just extrapolate such a thing generally to all populations, willy-nilly. No Dane can simply start chomping down on seal fins only and expect the same results.

Anyway, just my thoughts. I agree with the notion of moderation - also meaning, if you do this, introduce it over time and carefully, and I'd advise to do it under the care of your physician (expect pushback, but explain what you want to do) who will likely want to regularly monitor with blood panels. You'll also then be educated and can make choices accordingly as you go along.

Whatever you end up doing, good luck to you.

 

[herd90]

Almost 2 year carnivore diet. Off blood pressure meds, inflammation gone, tons of energy. No issues at all. YouTube Dr Ken Berry. He has the data to backup any concerns you might have.

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[Dos Perros]

the standard american diet preys on most of the obese population. It is sad.

Step 1) look at yourself in the mirror, ask yourself "am I obese?"
Step 2) proceed accordingly

Else, it's an answer looking for a problem.

 

[*zap*]

7/1 was #216 now #191 at 6' and 67 yoa. I was not looking fat at 216.

 

[Bearwhisky]

We weren't evolved to eat only meat. Think through what our ancestors would have eaten. On average, probably plants, grains, and berries most days, and a deer a week if we were doing well. One day a week, we'd probably go hungry. We'd change what we ate by what was fresh that season.

Humans are opportunistic omnivores. Some of our "edge" came from that variety, because we got a broader range of micronutrients and trace elements than other species. You can survive on nothing but roast beef sandwiches, but that doesn't make it ideal. So yes, probably lots of folks have issues from a meat-only diet - gout, constipation, that sort of thing.

But the original question is either too broad or too misleading. There's really no such thing as a 100%-strict "carnivore diet" for humans - without at least SOME fiber and the vitamins we get from plants, we'd die of simple stuff like scurvy just like 1600's sailors did. What do you really want to know?

Where were our nomadic ancestors getting their grains, berries and plants during the 3/4 of the year that they weren’t growing/fruiting?


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[Marbles]

Where were our nomadic ancestors getting their grains, berries and plants during the 3/4 of the year that they weren’t growing/fruiting?


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Even in Alaska I can eat fresh wild plans for half the year very easily.

I can find frozen berries until breakup.

Even the Inupiaq (Eskimo's) have plants in their traditional diet. They would use fermentation as one method of storing plants for winter consumption. I say would, because modern ones rarely do.

If you are interested in this, from an Inupiaq, not a researcher, pick up the book Plants That We Eat by Nauriat Niginaqtaut.

Most westerners talking about primitive diets is like a 13 year old virgin talking about sex. No experience and not enough talk with those who have the knowledge.

 

[*zap*]

plants can be toxic to some people, fruits have sugar, which can be an issue for some of us...I think the best aspect of carnivore is that the food is so neutral you may be able to observe issues you have go away or get better. The fat can definitely fall off...which at my age it is good to be fairly lean..I dropped 25# in 90 days while doing no cardio.
anyway, not really anyone who did this posting any issues...I know there are a few very common issues.
I do not think you have to eat exactly like a caveman for a nutrition plan to benefit you.

 

[999delta]

I had a first cousin that would do the meat diet every couple years. He would lose around 60#, stop the diet and go back to were he was over time. I think he did it like three times. He was 46 years old, layed on his couch to take a nap and had a heart attack and died. Not sure his diet or going up and down in weight had anything to do with it.

 

[khart_6882]

I made it 30 days on strict carnivore, then another 30 on carnivore with a serving or two of fruit through the day.
I still eat 75% meat with fruits and veggies and the occasional potato or sweet potato.
The main issue I had with strict carnivore was wanting variety. I never thought I could get tired of salty meat but I did. I could eat a ribeye for every meal but my wallet said otherwise haha.
I felt great, lost a few lbs, had plenty of energy and my blood work was nearly perfection (although I didn’t have my blood work done before carnivore).
I will say my bowel movements changed. Everything came out great but it was reduced to 3-4 times a week. No constipation issues, I just didn’t need to go.


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