Anyone else cringing?

Joined
Feb 24, 2016
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2,603
The thing is, no one knows if they turned the tag back re-instated their PPs or kept the tag

THIS IS VERY TRUE.

I have heard of guys that have high points like that grabbing the tag only to purposely turn it back in so their friends have a chance at it when it hits the returned tag list.....

All kinds of games being played....

Which is EXACTLY why I dont like that people can return tags....
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
601
Archery elk hunting is definitely getting harder to get tags. Even my home state of Oregon is going to a controlled draw hunts in most of the units in NE Oregon. The Few units I hunt had nearly 300 non res hunters last year. Under the new draw system it will be capped at 80 non res tags. There was definitely an uptick of out of state plates the last couple years as Idaho got harder to get tags. Lots of Washington hunters pushed to Oregon where they could get an OTC tag. For 2022 that Option is gone.

Total hunter numbers have doubled since 2015 in this area, and bull to cow numbers have dropped from 20/100 to 10/100. I think this is a similar Selena all the other states are facing. Tags numbers have to be controlled.

In all the different states there are tons of people that have put in for limited quota high quality tags, and then they hunted general OTC units until they drew the Limited quota tags. Now the options for the general OTC tags have started to evaporate the last few years.

I definitely see lots of point creep in different states ahead with all the changes that have occurred in the different states the last 2-3 years.

Just the new draw in Oregon for 2022 is probably pushing thousands of hunters to other states for archery elk tags in 2022.
 
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
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0A31E35C-56E3-40DE-BE2C-601D79A0354D.pngThese are last year’s draw odds for the Wyoming general license. There are applicants with 11 points, 10 points, 9, 8, 7. Its always been that way. And like I said I’m pretty sure that once these guys light their points on fire they’re not buying anymore. I’m forever an optimist! If you want to kill bulls every year you gotta be!
 

cnelk

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Mar 1, 2012
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Colorado
View attachment 400880These are last year’s draw odds for the Wyoming general license. There are applicants with 11 points, 10 points, 9, 8, 7. Its always been that way. And like I said I’m pretty sure that once these guys light their points on fire they’re not buying anymore. I’m forever an optimist! If you want to kill bulls every year you gotta be!

Im betting they were used for Averaging PPs
 
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
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Im betting they were used for Averaging PPs
Hmm??? I’m not sure if they are listed that way in the odds or not. Or are applicants listed there by the point average for all party members? Good point Brad and you’re probably right but either way these guys dumped their points and I’d bet money they’re not coming back. I like that. Don’t go away mad… just go away! 😉
 

5MilesBack

"DADDY"
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Feb 27, 2012
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They need to straight up stop calling them "points" and call it what it is..."years."
That's exactly what they represent and always have........"how many years one has been collecting those points". That has also always been used in determining how many more "years" it will take to draw the tag you want. It takes a little guesstimating as well, since we never know how many will "dump" their points for a lesser tag.
 

Thomas11

WKR
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Feb 13, 2017
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To my knowledge the 90/10 split isn’t going to have an effect on the general elk licenses. Only limited quota ones. And that’s not until they ram it through the system for moose, sheep, and mntn goats. So it’ll be a little while before you have to worry about that unless you are actually dreaming of hunting LQ units.
Actually the task force said general elk license will be spilt into regional general units and those regional units will have some type of caps on them and that the total cap of 7250 NR would go away potentially increasing overall NR license
 

Lowg08

WKR
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Aug 31, 2019
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I’m not trying to gripe or “B”. Just I’m already so limited on vacation and time. It’s too much extra to worry with. It’s easier for me to make closer to home plans and make multiple trips. Im so late to the game. I already feel at a disadvantage to start with.
 
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Feb 17, 2013
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Just the term “Task force” pisses me off. I talk to Gary Fralich the biologist in the area regularly. He said it’s no longer game management it’s people management. He doesn’t agree at all with the 90/10 split. The task force is based on nothing more than resentment for non resident hunters. Opportunities for residents in Wyoming are great. Never good enough though. Go hunt wilderness! 😡

I hope they know how to balance a budget. But wait… they aren’t Wyoming Fish and Game so the Wy F&G budget doesn’t matter to them. My dream which will never happen is that for just one year 100% of non residents do not apply for any licenses or buy any points. I think the war in Ukraine calls it “sanctioning”. The results of that would be my pleasure to read about!
 

Overdrive

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Aug 10, 2018
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Earth
I've come to far and built too many points to give up now.

I have 23 PP for Elk in Colorado and 11 PP for Elk in Wyoming and also 8 PP for Antelope in Wyoming. It's more of an investment at this time until I decide what I want to do.

I hunt on 2nd choice tags, you know the ones nobody wants in the first place but complains because they can't draw a tag because they don't use the system to their advantage.
 

YZF_88

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Messages
220
The more I think about it, the more I see this year and next being unprecedented in "point creep". I think everyone sees the writing on the wall and there will be a tremendous point dump in states specifically Wyoming with the looming 90/10. In other words people saving up for premium units decide to "settle" for general units. This isn't a "gloom and doom" post by intent but more a request for peoples opinions on what they're seeing or hearing. Ironically Remi brought it up in one of his last podcasts.
I'm pretty worried my 13 points won't get the tag I'm after. Last year I dropped 9 antelope points on a "6 point unit" and ended up only having 10% odds!

If I don't draw and they cut quota's in half, I'll just put my points in the classified section next year!!!
 

Archer86

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Jun 28, 2019
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The mountians
Actually the task force said general elk license will be spilt into regional general units and those regional units will have some type of caps on them and that the total cap of 7250 NR would go away potentially increasing overall NR license
The 7250 is not a cap currently its a minimum and wyoming all ready issues more then the 7250 nr elk license i think the regional elk area for nr is a good idea
 
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Feb 17, 2013
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The 7250 is not a cap currently its a minimum and wyoming all ready issues more then the 7250 nr elk license i think the regional elk area for nr is a good idea
Maybe…. Depending on where you hunt. That would make it similar to regional deer licenses. Look at the difference between region G and H right now. Some hunters would like it. Some probably wouldn’t.
 

BuzzH

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May 27, 2017
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Wyoming
Just the term “Task force” pisses me off. I talk to Gary Fralich the biologist in the area regularly. He said it’s no longer game management it’s people management. He doesn’t agree at all with the 90/10 split. The task force is based on nothing more than resentment for non resident hunters. Opportunities for residents in Wyoming are great. Never good enough though. Go hunt wilderness! 😡

I hope they know how to balance a budget. But wait… they aren’t Wyoming Fish and Game so the Wy F&G budget doesn’t matter to them. My dream which will never happen is that for just one year 100% of non residents do not apply for any licenses or buy any points. I think the war in Ukraine calls it “sanctioning”. The results of that would be my pleasure to read about!
I would really like to see nrs sanction Wyoming too...where is the petition I need to sign?
 
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
Messages
382
Location
Lakewood, CO
Here's a good example of Pref Point 'dumping'

This is a ML Elk hunt code
1 PP for a NonRes guarantees the tag



View attachment 400865
Looking at the draws over the years, I've seen this happen every year and kinda scratch my head wondering who'd burn 10-15 pts on a lowly 1-3 point unit. Perhaps they were building pts and eventually decided to hunt when Uncle Joey can draw or they just gave up and decided to burn the house in a familiar unit after realizing it's gonna be 20+ years to draw a "dream unit". Or maybe they really pay no attention to the numbers as I do know guys like that, that don't know how many points it takes. Who knows but if you look back thru years, you'll see it pretty regularly.
 

Ripnbst

FNG
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May 17, 2020
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HOUSTON, TX
Every year, every state, should be a 100% lottery on public land. 60 or 70% of tags should go to residents and 30-40% should go to non-residents.

Cost to enter the lottery would be like $100 per state and if you are drawn then you pay the tag price, whatever it is in the given state you are entering their lottery. You don't win, you lost your $100. I'd also propose the western alliance be about more than just enforcing game law violators. If someone draws in one state they are not eligible to enter into the draw in any other state via information sharing through the western alliance.
*Exception to this is for residents who live in a given state. You're able to enter your own state drawing every year so the most hunts you could draw in a single year on public land is 2.

None of this would apply to private land owner tags or guided hunts on private land. Guided on public only if you're drawn in the above listed scenario.

These pref point systems are broken for sure, across the board.
 
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Messages
2,340
Every year, every state, should be a 100% lottery on public land. 60 or 70% of tags should go to residents and 30-40% should go to non-residents.

Cost to enter the lottery would be like $100 per state and if you are drawn then you pay the tag price, whatever it is in the given state you are entering their lottery. You don't win, you lost your $100. I'd also propose the western alliance be about more than just enforcing game law violators. If someone draws in one state they are not eligible to enter into the draw in any other state via information sharing through the western alliance.
*Exception to this is for residents who live in a given state. You're able to enter your own state drawing every year so the most hunts you could draw in a single year on public land is 2.

None of this would apply to private land owner tags or guided hunts on private land. Guided on public only if you're drawn in the above listed scenario.

These pref point systems are broken for sure, across the board.
As if preference points that cost enough and guarantee nothing aren’t bad enough now you propose we all give states $100 a year for nothing? I’ll pass. It costs me that much every year for a deer point in Colorado with my small game license and habitat stamp but at least I know I can go hunting when I want. Quality of hunt not so guaranteed but I can hunt. A point system is better than this idea. Those who put their time and money in should have better odds. You might feel differently if you were an elk hunter in your 60s.

Also let’s not forget that with the current system 25% of the licenses are set aside for the random. So you can draw with zero points without losing $100 if you don’t. Not too bad actually. Up until this 90/10 split bullshit I’ve been happy with Wyoming’s system.
 

tdhanses

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Sep 26, 2018
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To my knowledge the 90/10 split isn’t going to have an effect on the general elk licenses. Only limited quota ones. And that’s not until they ram it through the system for moose, sheep, and mntn goats. So it’ll be a little while before you have to worry about that unless you are actually dreaming of hunting LQ units.
Yeah but once it happens you’ll see a large jump in the amount of pts to draw the general units as those holding out give up, think what he is saying is some may give up before that change happens and just take their 10pts to the generals.
 

tdhanses

WKR
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Sep 26, 2018
Messages
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A 15 point unit cannot "automatically double". No unit can require more than max points to draw.
Well when they take away half the tags and only 10 are available but 1000 with max pts are trying to draw it’s roughly the same thing and people will give up and go general.
 

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