Anyone else cringing?

[cfdjay]

The more I think about it, the more I see this year and next being unprecedented in "point creep". I think everyone sees the writing on the wall and there will be a tremendous point dump in states specifically Wyoming with the looming 90/10. In other words people saving up for premium units decide to "settle" for general units. This isn't a "gloom and doom" post by intent but more a request for peoples opinions on what they're seeing or hearing. Ironically Remi brought it up in one of his last podcasts.

 

[Fordguy]

I've been expecting point creep to increase every year since I started buying points and applying. I haven't been surprised, just disappointed that I've been correct. That said, I do expect it to be worse than ever the next few years. It might keep me from drawing, but won't keep me from applying.

 

[DmrbigEshotT]

I think the fact that Colorado allowing you BOTH your points and license cost back is going to have an impact on other states as well as make the secondary draw more of a frenzy.

It impacted me as far as applying for NM when I typically would not have since I plan on drawing CO with the points I’ve accumulated.


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[sndmn11]

Every year will be an unprecedented point creep year.

 

[ChiefMingo]

Unfortunately, think you are correct, looks like it's even hitting the Montana general draw. Historically 100% with 2 preference points, extremely unlikely for that to happen this year. Naturally, I'm in a group of 3 all with 2 PF. So let's see what happens.

I only have a couple of points in any given state, but I'll keep applying to them just in case I get an opportunity somewhere down the road.

 

[Northpark]

I have already begun the point dump. Unfortunately for me western hunting is going the way of the rich man. Will hunt my home state of AZ when I can and pay for guided hunts or landowner tags from time to time. Buy a bison or head of beef for meat for the year.

 

[Lowg08]

I’m just stopping buying points. I don’t have enough to matter. Just going to work on big deep woods whitetail. Hunting a western way. I’be never been able to go due to work and was starting to have enough vacation and time to go. Been buying points for 2 years and now with the seemingly anti non-resident sentiment. I’ll just chase deer, bear and turkey with a bow and buy a boat for inshore fishing in Florida

 

[Trap]

Point creep or point leap ha ha. The point systems are either broke or breaking depending on the state. No western state was set up to handle hunters from all 50 states trying to cram into one state. Tag draw services promoted a dream and built big business on it. It worked for a few but it’s kinda a fools game now. I got in late so I will just hunt my home state of Idaho and occasionally Montana where I still have a lot of family. I do have a few points in other states I will probably burn on a mediocre hunt and question why I wasted all the gas I’m out of the draw game. kinda feels like going to Vegas you get a few wins but in the end the house always wins. I hope those who keep playing draw some great tags not worth it for me.

 

[Indian Summer]

To my knowledge the 90/10 split isn’t going to have an effect on the general elk licenses. Only limited quota ones. And that’s not until they ram it through the system for moose, sheep, and mntn goats. So it’ll be a little while before you have to worry about that unless you are actually dreaming of hunting LQ units.

 

[D_Dubya]

I think the growing push to eliminate older age class mule deer in CO & WY in order to decrease CWD prevalence will get a whole lot of people to use their deer points sooner rather than later. The sky may not be falling but it’s certainly looking like big mule deer are going to become even more scarce for a long time.

An Economic downturn and boomers aging out might slow creep/leap at some point in the future - but only if we have robust game populations that can support tag allocations near current levels.

 

[cfdjay]

To my knowledge the 90/10 split isn’t going to have an effect on the general elk licenses. Only limited quota ones. And that’s not until they ram it through the system for moose, sheep, and mntn goats. So it’ll be a little while before you have to worry about that unless you are actually dreaming of hunting LQ units.

This is kind of my point. Let's say I have 12 points for a limited quota unit. On average it has taken 15 points. If the 90/10 goes into effect for limited quota that automatically doubles (at least) the avg points it'll take. So what do I do with my 12,13 or 14 points? I dump them into a general unit. Making general units also double or even triple in points needed to draw assuming most people do the same.

 

[Jethro]

This is kind of my point. Let's say I have 12 points for a limited quota unit. On average it has taken 15 points. If the 90/10 goes into effect for limited quota that automatically doubles (at least) the avg points it'll take. So what do I do with my 12,13 or 14 points? I dump them into a general unit. Making general units also double or even triple in points needed to draw assuming most people do the same.

A 15 point unit cannot "automatically double". No unit can require more than max points to draw.

 

[Indian Summer]

This is kind of my point. Let's say I have 12 points for a limited quota unit. On average it has taken 15 points. If the 90/10 goes into effect for limited quota that automatically doubles (at least) the avg points it'll take. So what do I do with my 12,13 or 14 points? I dump them into a general unit. Making general units also double or even triple in points needed to draw assuming most people do the same.

True that… but the affect is temporary. The year after that you’re back to square one and possibly even done in Wyoming altogether. Is there a light at the end of the point creep tunnel?

There have always been general license applicants with 8 points or so.

 

[cnelk]

Here's a good example of Pref Point 'dumping'

This is a ML Elk hunt code
1 PP for a NonRes guarantees the tag

 

[Rich M]

Here's a good example of Pref Point 'dumping'

This is a ML Elk hunt code
1 PP for a NonRes guarantees the tag



View attachment 400865

Add the threat of 90/10 and bingo. The next 2-3 years will be interesting draws as the players get out of the game.

 

[Fatcamp]

To my knowledge the 90/10 split isn’t going to have an effect on the general elk licenses. Only limited quota ones. And that’s not until they ram it through the system for moose, sheep, and mntn goats. So it’ll be a little while before you have to worry about that unless you are actually dreaming of hunting LQ units.

The idea that it's coming is enough for people to mistrust the situation. No one really knows what they are going to do, just that non-residents are going to come out on the losing end.

I can totally see them redefining what a "full price elk tag" is and having plenty of cow tags available for nonrsidents. Maybe I'm out of line, but I don't think so.

 

[JjamesIII]

The system has proven to be absolutely broken. People are not happy. They need to stop “doubling down” and admit it’s unsustainable and return the money to point holders. Just go to a non-point accumulating draw. No more games. The wildlife agencies are making so much money selling “hope to hunt”. The government is supposed to be working for the people. The resources are supposedly owned by the people.
It will be a lean couple of years for the agency budget, but in the long run it will be better. Big deal, skip radio collaring mountain lions in California for five years or picking through red wolf scat in Arizona.

 

[5MilesBack]

It's interesting looking at some of the units and any point creep they have had. Unit 61 resident ML in 2014, minimum points to draw was 15. Last year minimum was 16. So one point increase in 7 years. But for archery, in 2014 it was 11 points minimum but jumped to 15 last year.......so a 4 point jump. I've seen the same thing in other units as well, with archery jumping a lot more than ML. That shows you where the demand is......archery.

For years I've seen some folks "point dumping" to get a lesser tag, but the last couple years definitely have been worse. Lots of people using more points than needed to draw their tag.

 

[MallardSX2]

Anyone who dumps 15 points on a 1 pt ML tag has either lost their mind or they have made a mistake on their application. lol

I seen a few years back a guy smoked 26 MD points on a 1 point 2nd season MD tag in northern Colorado. lol That had to have been a mistake....

 

[cnelk]

The 2021 Colorado Elk Draw Stats are littered with 'Point Dumping' [or really stupid applicants]

The thing is, no one knows if they turned the tag back re-instated their PPs or kept the tag