Any Civil Attorneys here? Advice

[JF_Idaho]

Just looking for some basic advice on how to proceed here.

The story:

My son bought a classic car (2024) from a private party seller. Titled, etc. Got it titled in his name, registered, insured, etc. Everything legit. No vin swap or anything like that.

A few months later after posting on some forums he got a message on Facebook from a guy claiming he thought it was his car that had been stolen in 2007. Didn't see the message for a couple months. Didn't respond.

Mid-2024 gets a message from his roommate that the police were there and checking the car. Calls the investigating officer back and they tell him the guy from Facebook called them about the stolen car. They checked it out, and it is the reported car. They tell him after investigating that he (my son) is the titled owner of the car and that it's settled, don't worry about it.

Over 6 months or so he proceeds to work on the car. Has some back and forth messages with the previous owner over Facebook where the guy even admits the police told him it's my kids car. Offers to buy it back, etc.

A week ago my son comes home, car is gone. Police took it. Returned to the original owner. Investigating officer says it popped on nicb, won't even let my kid get his personal stuff out of the car. Seems suspect that through multiple transactions, including one through a dealer that the person who sold to my son bought it from, multiple registrations and insurance that it doesn't pop on nicb. Even when the police did their initial investigation into the car.

The previous owner messages my kid asking for the keys and title to the car. He responds I have no problem with that if you'll pay me for the upgrades I have made to the car. He understands the loss for the car itself. Guy asks my son to send him receipts. He sends them totaling about $2700. Guy blocks him.

Is there any legal recourse here?


Update 7-4

Case lost. Judge not interested.

 

[nphunter]

I had something similar happen with a snowmobile. I traded a car for the sled and a couple weeks later the car was in a high speed chase and the cops showed up looking for me. I explained that I had traded the car off and they ran the vin on the sled. A couple days later they came back to took the sled and said it had been reported stolen.

I was told I could get my car back but it had been trashed in the chase and I would have to pay all do the processing fees and impound bill, it was also 300 miles away so I just cut my losses.

$2700 doesn’t seem like enough money to take someone to court over to me. I’m really not even sure who would be liable, the person who got their car back defiantly shouldn’t be IMO. The guy your kid got that car from probably is in the same boat as your kid, he probably didn’t know it was stolen either. If your kid sold it and this happened to the buyer you wouldn’t want someone lawyering up and coming after your son. It’s really a lose, lose situation, it sucks for your kid but it’s nice for the original owner that had the car stolen to finally have his car back.

I’m really not sure how you steel something and have a legal title? I would think that the car would have been flagged at the dmv as stolen as soon as it was processed. Titles are checked for brands before being reissued. If the title is in your kids name, he could always report it stolen and tell the police where it is and the police department sort it out. Seems like a headache for sure.

 

[JF_Idaho]

I had something similar happen with a snowmobile. I traded a car for the sled and a couple weeks later the car was in a high speed chase and the cops showed up looking for me. I explained that I had traded the car off and they ran the vin on the sled. A couple days later they came back to took the sled and said it had been reported stolen.

I was told I could get my car back but it had been trashed in the chase and I would have to pay all do the processing fees and impound bill, it was also 300 miles away so I just cut my losses.

$2700 doesn’t seem like enough money to take someone to court over to me. I’m really not even sure who would be liable, the person who got their car back defiantly shouldn’t be IMO. The guy your kid got that car from probably is in the same boat as your kid, he probably didn’t know it was stolen either. If your kid sold it and this happened to the buyer you wouldn’t want someone lawyering up and coming after your son. It’s really a lose, lose situation, it sucks for your kid but it’s nice for the original owner that had the car stolen to finally have his car back.

I’m really not sure how you steel something and have a legal title? I would think that the car would have been flagged at the dmv as stolen as soon as it was processed. Titles are checked for brands before being reissued. If the title is in your kids name, he could always report it stolen and tell the police where it is and the police department sort it out. Seems like a headache for sure.

Thanks for your response. Yeah it definitely seems weird how it could have not been flagged through multiple DMV transactions.

And I would normally agree with you about the 2700. Except it's trying to recoup 2700 from a 12,700 loss. He's a 22 year old that just got out of the army so that's a huge loss for him.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

If it was only the $2700, it would not be worth it to get a lawyer involved. Depending on how much he paid for the vehicle, it may be worth it. but most states have laws regarding buying stolen property whether you are aware you received stolen property or not.. Generally you are SOL.. Something does seem weird though.

 

[JF_Idaho]

If it was only the $2700, it would not be worth it to get a lawyer involved. Depending on how much he paid for the vehicle, it may be worth it. but most states have laws regarding buying stolen property whether you are aware you received stolen property or not.. Generally you are SOL.. Something does seem weird though.

For sure. I should note that this is in TN. I guess that's why I was hoping for some legal advice to get started. Everything starts getting a little murky when it starts getting into "good faith" and the fact he owns the legal title.

 

[StuckInTheEast]

I'd gamble a couple grand on a good attorney if he had valid legal title to the vehicle...thats where things don't add up.
I'd be after the guy that sold it to you and the dealer that sold it to him. $10k or over your into grand theft territory if I remember correctly.
Shame the legal system is more worried about taking something your son had legal, proper title too vs tracking down who stole it in the first place based of of what appears an obvious paper trail.
The real sketchy part from what you've stated is, by what I read, hypothetically anyone could sell a vehicle with title transfer to new owner...then report it stolen, despite legal title transfer on record, then reclaim it based on nothing but having previously held title and simply claiming it was stolen... something doesnt add up here....this is defeating the purpose of titles and the title transfer process.

 

[UKwildcatfan]

Just looking for some basic advice on how to proceed here.

The story:

My son bought a classic car (2024) from a private party seller. Titled, etc. Got it titled in his name, registered, insured, etc. Everything legit. No vin swap or anything like that.

A few months later after posting on some forums he got a message on Facebook from a guy claiming he thought it was his car that had been stolen in 2007. Didn't see the message for a couple months. Didn't respond.

Mid-2024 gets a message from his roommate that the police were there and checking the car. Calls the investigating officer back and they tell him the guy from Facebook called them about the stolen car. They checked it out, and it is the reported car. They tell him after investigating that he (my son) is the titled owner of the car and that it's settled, don't worry about it.

Over 6 months or so he proceeds to work on the car. Has some back and forth messages with the previous owner over Facebook where the guy even admits the police told him it's my kids car. Offers to buy it back, etc.

A week ago my son comes home, car is gone. Police took it. Returned to the original owner. Investigating officer says it popped on nicb, won't even let my kid get his personal stuff out of the car. Seems suspect that through multiple transactions, including one through a dealer that the person who sold to my son bought it from, multiple registrations and insurance that it doesn't pop on nicb. Even when the police did their initial investigation into the car.

The previous owner messages my kid asking for the keys and title to the car. He responds I have no problem with that if you'll pay me for the upgrades I have made to the car. He understands the loss for the car itself. Guy asks my son to send him receipts. He sends them totaling about $2700. Guy blocks him.

Is there any legal recourse here?

You really need to speak to an attorney local to you. Getting "legal advice" on a forum would be my last course of action.

 

[waspocrew]

^^^ I'd reach out to an attorney as well. I know nothing regarding legality of the situation, but it seems off for sure.

 

[180ls1]

Maybe this guy could point you in the right direction. Seems like its worth looking into further.

Steve Lehto

I am a Michigan attorney who has practiced in the fields of Lemon Law and Consumer Protection for 33 years. I have written extensively on a variety of topics and taught both law and history. Lehto's Law is the reincarnation of a talk show I hosted for a decade on the radio in Michigan. I have...

www.youtube.com

 

[KenLee]

There are people in the business of "cleaning and/or obtaining" vehicle titles. Usually across state lines. Find out where this happened in the chain of ownership and that's the one guilty of receiving stolen goods.

 

[HuntHarder]

There is recourse, if the seller to your son knew it was stolen. I received restitution for years after purchasing a stolen item (unknown to me). Whoever stole it, has to be convicted tho..

 

[Fatcamp]

There are people in the business of "cleaning and/or obtaining" vehicle titles. Usually across state lines. Find out where this happened in the chain of ownership and that's the one guilty of receiving stolen goods.

Yup. Common with Harleys. I don't know how they do it but they claim it's legit. It's also common for two people to have title to the same vehicle, the last one who titles it has the tags, but both look legit. Modern bikes can be titled off the frame or engine, and if separated it can be a mess.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

You really need to speak to an attorney local to you. Getting "legal advice" on a forum would be my last course of action.

110% correct.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

Is there such a thing as title insurance or is my mind making that up? I seem to remember buying a used suburban for my wife way way back and transferring the title at the title company and there was a small fee for title insurance. This is in Texas but it seems that if something like that we're in place when the title was transferred this would be when it kicks in. Good luck with all this, it kills me when the young ones end up a having a loss like this when they're just getting going.

 

[arrowjunkie]

I would put in a request for the original police report. There will be a treasure trove of breadcrumbs in there potentially. Things I'd be interested in would be when was it actually reported, what were the circumstances and did the investigating agency enter it as stolen. It's odd to me they came out and checked it once and left the stolen property with your son.

In my experience, if it actually was stolen in 2007 and has been bought and sold a few times since via private sales it's tough to track the original thief down. I would guess the original owner has no civil liability for the upgrades since they didn't authorize it or have any idea it was occurring. Unless you know a pretty cheap attorney I'm not sure the amount of billable hours needed for this would be worth it.

 

[Fatcamp]

Is there such a thing as title insurance or is my mind making that up? I seem to remember buying a used suburban for my wife way way back and transferring the title at the title company and there was a small fee for title insurance. This is in Texas but it seems that if something like that we're in place when the title was transferred this would be when it kicks in. Good luck with all this, it kills me when the young ones end up a having a loss like this when they're just getting going.

I see bikes being sold with a mandatory title insurance disclaimer, so it must be a thing. I recently saw a Volkswagen baja with the same thing.

 

[Reburn]

I mean.
He has the keys and a clean title.
I would go pick it up and drop it off in the hood and leave it running with the keys in it.
Let that shit get stolen for real.

*disclaimer* I'm not an attorney.

 

[JF_Idaho]

You really need to speak to an attorney local to you. Getting "legal advice" on a forum would be my last course of action.

I 100% agree. But in this case I would probably just tell him to file in small claims and let the judge sort it out.

 

[5811]

Another good reason to keep stuff off the internet.

 

[EastHumboldt]

I’m not a lawyer but I’ve watched a lot of TV. Unless the lawyer you hire is actually a personal friend, you’ll spend more than 2700. Do you need a lawyer to take the guy to small claims court? If you can get on one of those court TV shows don’t they pay you for appearing? Win win!!!