Another Rifle Cleaning Thread

[West2East]

Short and Quick of it is I started having groups that were 4"-4.5" at 100 yds after routinely being about 1.5"-2" for all box ammo(Winchester, Federal, and Nosler). I checked all the action screws and the rings, everything was tight. I decided to clean it even though I read continually on here that guys never clean for the life of their barrels. Anyway, I cleaned that barrel spotless, ran a final dry patch through twice. Shot it (2-5shot groups) and was down to .75"-1" overall group.
So I am taking away that this barrel must like to be on the cleaner side? I want to state that I am not the best shot, nor do I think that I am a "Sub-MOA" shooter but I thought it was really weird that my group size jumped to 4.5" seemingly overnight and through cleaning, went to under an inch for a total 10 shot group. Rifle and ammo data is below for reference.

Win M70 300WSM
Vortex Viper 4-16x40 (Roast Me)
HS Precision Sporter stock
All shots are off of a Harris Bipod with a "rear bag"(bag of game bags)
180g Nosler Trophy Grade AB is what I have landed on until I get my reloading stuff all set back up for next season

 

[Harvey_NW]

To me, .75"-1" for 10 shots overall group speaks for itself. Curious about details, what did you clean it with, and what was your process?

Hopefully @Formidilosus will chime in on this.

 

[TaperPin]

Thats fantastic. With that huge range in groups be on the lookout for a scope with loose internals if it ever starts shooting poorly even after being cleaned.

 

[West2East]

Here was my method for cleaning.
Items used:
Tipton CF rod
Nylon Brushes (.30 and .27 explained later)
Hoppes Carbon Solvent and Hoppes gun oil for finishing
Foaming Copper Solvent(non-ammonia) I can't remember the specific brand bought from cabelas
Tipton .30 patches

I watched videos online from gunwerks and other "reputable brands" on gun cleaning and came up with the below. One thing that I read/learned from some of them, including gunwerks, was that the brass jags can cause some issues on the crown end when they pop through so they mentioned using a size smaller nylon brush to push patches through. I'm not sure this was worth it and I have my doubts on my execution, but I went with it. So all the patches were pushed through in this manner.

I ran an initial patch of carbon solvent through and let it sit for a couple minutes and ran several dry patches. There was still quite a bit of carbon in there. I ran a .30 nylon brush with carbon solvent in and scrubbed the barrel back and forth several times followed by dry patches to clean it out. This process was done twice until it seemed most of the carbon was out.
I saw there was a lot of copper in the barrel so I used the foaming copper solvent. The first time I let it sit for about 2 minutes and ran dry patches through, still a lot of copper. The next time I let sit for 10 minutes, followed that same process and still copper. So another round waiting 20 minutes, This time, I ran a nylon brush through and scrubbed back and forth several times, followed by dry patches. After this run there seemed to be no copper fouling left.
I ran another wet patch of carbon solvent and several dry patches through and it was all as clean as it needed to be.
I ran a wet patch of lubricating oil down the barrel and probably 4 dry patches and called it good.

 

[Farmcritter]

I’ve got a Christensen Ridgeline in .308 win that seams to open up overnight without regular cleaning. It’s a laser when it’s clean. I can’t explain it either but after about 50 rounds it’s like someone flipped a switch and the flyers start coming. Gets worse as the barrel warms up. After cleaning it usually only takes a shot or two to get back on target. I use a little sweets, a Nylon brush and about 5 patches and it’s good for another 50. I have others that probably have 200 + rounds through them and still shoot lights out.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I’ve got a Christensen Ridgeline in .308 win that seams to open up overnight without regular cleaning. It’s a laser when it’s clean. I can’t explain it either but after about 50 rounds it’s like someone flipped a switch and the flyers start coming. Gets worse as the barrel warms up. After cleaning it usually only takes a shot or two to get back on target. I use a little sweets, a Nylon brush and about 5 patches and it’s good for another 50. I have others that probably have 200 + rounds through them and still shoot lights out.

This sounds like my experience with Christensen barrels unfortunately.

 

[hereinaz]

Do what your barrel likes. Some need cleaning.

And, all barrels need cleaning, especially the throat for carbon ring. I don’t necessarily clean my barrels a lot, but I wouldn’t go the full barrel life.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

That’s the nature of the beast with rough OEM barrels, they collect a lot of carbon and copper and accuracy goes to shit. Unless the barrel is really bad they will smooth up over time and require less frequent cleaning. Usually by 300 rounds this has occurred on all but the roughest barrels. The Tubbs final finish bullets work wonders for smoothing out a rough barrel too.

With that said you’re often usually not doing yourself any favors running different types of ammo back to back. Propellants have different chemistry and even the bullets and some bullets will copper foul worse than others.

 

[justinspicher]

Cleaning a gun is overrated.

 

[West2East]

Cleaning a gun is overrated.

I read that continually here. I can understand it in a custom barrel. But when I saw the group open up overnight, with nothing else seeemingly wrong, eliminating most of the other variables. Cleaning seemed to work. Now if they hadn't gotten drastically better after cleaning, I would have looked at the other components, but for now, I think for that rifle, it needs to be cleanish.

 

[Formidilosus]

I read that continually here. I can understand it in a custom barrel. But when I saw the group open up overnight, with nothing else seeemingly wrong, eliminating most of the other variables. Cleaning seemed to work. Now if they hadn't gotten drastically better after cleaning, I would have looked at the other components, but for now, I think for that rifle, it needs to be cleanish.

Do what your rifle requires. Winchester barrels aren’t the greatest, and like some other manufacturers they can be finicky. In hundreds of legit aftermarket barrels, Tikka/Sako, Sauer, Blaser, etc barrels, not one needed to be cleaned. Unless the rifle was extremely sentimental, I would rebarrel if I got a picky barrel- the only cleaning rods I have are 250 miles from my house.

With rifles I currently hunt with-

- 6XC with nearing 900 rounds on a Schneider without anything but bullets through it. The Last 10 round group was .8 MOA.

- multiples of Tika/Sako 223’s and 308’s with thousands of rounds on each barrel with no cleaning and all are still less than 1.3 MOA for multiple ten round groups, 2x 6.5cm’s that are close to needing replaced at 3,500’ish rounds on each (10rnd groups are about 1.4-1.6 MOA). a 300WM with more than 700 rounds (last 10 round group was .7 MOA) and multiple 338’s with between 500-1,100 rounds.

- 6.5cm Sauer barrel with around 600 rounds on it, no cleaning. Last 10 round group was 1.1 MOA.


That’s just what is currently being shot and used multiple days a week. Apparently the barrels I get are magical because I don’t get carbon rings, or if I do they do not cause any issues, and they all maintain the same 20-30 round group size from 100’ish rounds to nearly the end of the barrels life. My barrels last as long or longer than they did when I cleaned religiously.

 

[West2East]

Thanks for the input. I know at some point I will put a barrel on this gun. A 5 shot string is about all I can do before I figure it's getting too hot. But I also figure 1MOA is good enough for its uses out to the range I want to shoot at for right now.
New barrel is in next year's budget

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[Tmac]

Some just need it. I have one Tikka T3X in 270 Win that complains loudly if it is not cleaned after about 20-30 rounds when shooting Barnes 130 gr. TTSX’s. If I feed it a lead filled bullet it is not picky about cleaning at all. I have another Tikka T3 in 270 Win that can shoot 129 Barnes LRX’s, or pretty much anything else, with no cleaning, and not lose accuracy. Go figure.

 

[wapitibob]

I clean after every range session, last patch is lock-eze. Cold bore at 600 is in the same group as shot #5.

 

[Mike 338]

I clean after every range session, last patch is lock-eze. Cold bore at 600 is in the same group as shot #5.

How do you apply your lock-ease?

 

[Mike 338]

The OP is bang on. The target didn't lie. Groups went south and a cleaning the rifle brought them back in. Carbon in general and the carbon ring in particular, increases pressure. It's an obstruction that the bullet and gasses have to crawl over. Grandpa could go his whole life on 3 boxes of ammo and never clean his rifle. Open sights and still knocking them flat and filling the freezer. But... if you shoot frequently and want consistent small groups without the flyers, a cleaning routine is probably gonna have to be in the mix. A good bore scope, which is about the cost of 4 boxes of ammo, will confirm what is normally left to conjecture.

 

[Dmoua]

I clean every 100 rounds since that is a normal round count for most PRS day matches. I don’t let my barrels get dirty to a point where I have accuracy issues. So far I have yet to have any problems.

If I put 20 rounds a year through my barrel right before hunting season started I probably wouldn’t clean it either.

 

[49ereric]

Clean after groups open up.

 

[Farmcritter]

Some just need it. I have one Tikka T3X in 270 Win that complains loudly if it is not cleaned after about 20-30 rounds when shooting Barnes 130 gr. TTSX’s. If I feed it a lead filled bullet it is not picky about cleaning at all. I have another Tikka T3 in 270 Win that can shoot 129 Barnes LRX’s, or pretty much anything else, with no cleaning, and not lose accuracy. Go figure.

This is interesting. I’ve only really shot Hornady 178’s out of the Christensen. Last time the barrel fouled I was testing 172 Speer impacts side by side with the Hornady. The steers were easily staying 3/4 “ groups and the Hornady went south quick. After cleaning they were pretty much the same. I’m really digging the speers so hopefully they can be pushed a little further?

 

[SloppyJ]

For what it's worth, I have a very picky 30-06 who just happens to be a model 70 as well. Likes to copper foul. Wonder if it's something with their barrels. Mine is a FN CRF model.