Another Long Range TV Show Misses Coues Deer By 3 Feet!!!

[wind gypsy]

Distance to the target (animal) is not the problem. People making mistakes and poor choices are the problem.

I generally agree. To me, shooting long distance for most hunters is similar to shooting at a running animal with zero experience doing it to know if one has more than a lucky chance at making a good shot. We focus on the longer range stuff more now because large #s of hunters shooting longer than MPBR and actually thinking there will be high odds outcomes is a new thing. While it falls under the "people making mistakes and poor choices" umbrella, it seems like distance being a large contributing variable to lousy shots is becoming a more frequent problem. Where as making shitty shots off hand, at a moving animal, forcing it through brush, or any other long list of reasons people make lousy shots at close range are probably static or less common than they have been in the past.

 

[Justin Crossley]

I generally agree. To me, shooting long distance for most hunters is similar to shooting at a running animal with zero experience doing it to know if one has more than a lucky chance at making a good shot. We focus on the longer range stuff more now because large #s of hunters shooting longer than MPBR and actually thinking there will be high odds outcomes is a new thing. While it falls under the "people making mistakes and poor choices" umbrella, it seems like distance being a large contributing variable to lousy shots is becoming a more frequent problem. Where as making shitty shots off hand, at a moving animal, forcing it through brush, or any other long list of reasons people make lousy shots at close range are probably static or less common than they have been in the past.

I hear what you're saying for sure. But what I have seen this week leads me to believe the morons are increasing out in the field.

Sadly, these idiots appear so used to missing that I haven't seen any of them even go looking for blood. They just hop back in their truck or SxS and take off down the road to look for another target. Maybe it's just worse in this particular area I'm hunting in at the moment. It is my first time here, so who knows.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Let’s use actual measured results: At the S2H classes, the students shoot exactly that. Not one person in over 100 has put ten rounds into the 1 MOA circle.

What's the criteria? I'd like to try it this winter as a personal challenge.

 

[wind gypsy]

What's the criteria? I'd like to try it this winter as a personal challenge.

Also curious. I know I’ve done it but it’s not the norm!

 

[Bubblehide]

A few years ago, after a surgery, I hunted this spot I usually park at and hike into 5 miles. I simply was not capable of the hike after the surgery, so I hunted the area I typically park at, along with many others. I was watching 2 bedded bucks (both spikes, spikes are illegal), they were about 100 yards apart. These 2 guys in a jeep pull up stop at my truck then continue about 70 yards further. They get out, look around, and they spook up 1 buck, he runs to the 2nd buck, and they both go up a slope, and take their time circle around and come back down to the flat. 1 of the 2 guys takes a 120 yard shot. I yell they are both spikes, and illegal. About 5 seconds later, boom, the guy shoots again. Both his shots missed. From my years of hunting, I've found that the majority of hunters out in the field, simply don't shoot well.

For those that want to know, yes, I filled my tag that year, on a bedded buck on the slope those 2 spikes ran up. I passed 2 other legal bucks 3 times. Unfortunately, it just didn't feel like I was hunting, due to my physical limitations at the time. I've been hiking in from that particular spot for well over 30 years, maybe 40 or more. So I have their patterns down pretty well from where I park, to well beyond the 5 mile hike in, as I camped and hunted from there. I prefer to get away from the crowds, as I've seen way to much wild shooting. He'll just up the road, one year, I watched 5 guys empty their rifles on a buck about 800 yards away. And another group empty their rifles on a buck about 200 yards away. Both parties missed both bucks. This all happened when I got back to my truck after a successful pack in hunt. I grabbed a cold drink from the ice chest, and was refueling myself, just taking it all in before my drive home. In short, 2 things, 1). I hated hunting that spot and not being able to pack in. 2). Is a repeat, most hunters can't hit a deer size target. OK, 3). I don't watch hunting shows, I mean, if you're experienced, do you actually get anything out of watching them.

 

[EdP]

Edit:
The fact that they checked zero after the fact and it was as expected says there is an experience/skill deficiency somewhere, either in wind reading, ballistics truing at longer ranges, trigger press, stable position, etc.

This certainly can be true but perhaps also may not be. I find that brush in the way of a clear shot is often invisible in the scope, both at close and far distances. Brush that is close enough to be seen with the naked eye can be avoided, but further out it can be impossible to see, just like the branch the archery hunter didn't know was there until the arrow careens off it.

 

[hibernation]

Sadly, these idiots appear so used to missing that I haven't seen any of them even go looking for blood. They just hop back in their truck or SxS and take off down the road to look for another target.

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
-Wayne Gretzky
-Michael Scott
-these idiots

 

[WRO]

Ahh the gentle sound of Jorts and new balance 608s squeaking on the concrete admiring the red c6 corvette in the garage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JackButler]

I've done that before... On a deer, at 1050. Perfect position, all the time in the world. Slight wind, but consistent, calculated the wind perfectly.

Broke the shot and as I watched trace I realized I didn't hold any wind even after I calculated it. Would have put the shot perfectly. Was probably 2 feet in front of his chest.

What of it?

What of it? Sounds like you’re one of the guys in the op video.

 

[JackButler]

Man you better be good to a 1000 before you head to mid Asia for ibex and argali sheep , a 400 meter shot is a close shot, 600-800 very likely
Those Stan countries the guides are in a insane hurry to get you back down below 13-14K and want you to shoot

If that’s the case, given the time and money involved, seems like the correct equipment would be paramount and the wanna be’s would hopefully be weeded out. Not in my plans to do that hunt, but if I booked one, part of the plan would be a caliber like 338 lapua or whatever that tilts the odds significantly in your favor ballistically. And then practicing relentlessly out to about 1500 under field conditions so a 1000 yard shot when it counts will actually be a high probability given all your training. Showing up for something like that with a 30-06 that you ran a box of core-lokt ammo through in the last year would be incredibly irresponsible.

 

[Southern Lights]

(Just using these two as examples).



There is a lot of “90% this”, “95% that” going on. If you took 100 hunters that are “MOA all day long” and had them shoot 10 rounds at a 1” for at 100 yards- not one would hit it ten times.

Let’s use actual measured results: At the S2H classes, the students shoot exactly that. Not one person in over 100 has put ten rounds into the 1 MOA circle. Only 3-4 have done so in the 2 MOA circle (not surprisingly all the 2 MOA people are on the board and let’s say- “follow the program here” to an extent).

The reality is that the amount of people that will take their actual hunting rifle, lay prone and hit 10x 1” dots at 100 yards is laughably small. I would be surprised if it were more than 10 out of 1,000 that did so.

I've commented on this before that in hunting field comps I see a lot of shooters that are excellent to not very excellent. Someone who is really excellent, national level kind of shooter, is I'd estimate 1.5MOA in field conditions. These guys practice a lot and are sponsored to shoot. Then there is everyone else and being 2MOA would be very good, with most averaging closer to 4MOA in the field with hunting weight rifles.

 

[Formidilosus]

I've commented on this before that in hunting field comps I see a lot of shooters that are excellent to not very excellent. Someone who is really excellent, national level kind of shooter, is I'd estimate 1.5MOA in field conditions. These guys practice a lot and are sponsored to shoot. Then there is everyone else and being 2MOA would be very good, with most averaging closer to 4MOA in the field with hunting weight rifles.

Yes sir on the top end. But, from what I’ve seen most hunters that actually shoot a bit and practice are between 4-6 MOA shooters…. If not worse.

 

[rbutcher1234]

Yes sir on the top end. But, from what I’ve seen most hunters that actually shoot a bit and practice are between 4-6 MOA shooters…. If not worse.

Are you talking about lying down prone and shooting their hunting rifle and getting 4-6moa groups? Or is this a Kraft drill?

 

[Formidilosus]

Are you talking about lying down prone and shooting their hunting rifle and getting 4-6moa groups? Or is this a Kraft drill?

Prone, but field conditions and terrain, with a tiny bit of stress.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

Man, the virtue signaling on this thread is top notch.

 

[rbutcher1234]

Prone, but field conditions and terrain, with a tiny bit of stress.

Ok, understood. I have always trained field shooting alongside physical stress.

I should probably take this course though because I don’t know what I don’t know.

 

[JackButler]

Man, the virtue signaling on this thread is top notch.

I can’t speak for others, and I may or may not be who you are referring to. I will just say I’ve learned the lesson, the hard way, more than once. Took shots with bow, rifle, and shotgun that were beyond my abilities. The final time that happened 20 years ago I was physically ill after shooting a bull in the neck with my bow that was well beyond the range I could consistently hit the vitals, and on a windy day. I wasn’t aiming at the neck but that’s how far off it was. Absolutely magnificent animal, at least a 370 class bull. Totally preventable. I practiced a lot, but 70 plus yards on a windy day with the equipment at the time, just no. So now, maybe I’m a virtue signaler when I say never again. I practice to 1100 yards with my 308, but 600 is my max for shooting game. And then the conditions have to be near perfect. Mostly under 500.

 

[MtnW]

I can’t speak for others, and I may or may not be who you are referring to. I will just say I’ve learned the lesson, the hard way, more than once. Took shots with bow, rifle, and shotgun that were beyond my abilities. The final time that happened 20 years ago I was physically ill after shooting a bull in the neck with my bow that was well beyond the range I could consistently hit the vitals, and on a windy day. I wasn’t aiming at the neck but that’s how far off it was. Absolutely magnificent animal, at least a 370 class bull. Totally preventable. I practiced a lot, but 70 plus yards on a windy day with the equipment at the time, just no. So now, maybe I’m a virtue signaler when I say never again. I practice to 1100 yards with my 308, but 600 is my max for shooting game. And then the conditions have to be near perfect. Mostly under 500.

What Jack Butler relays humbly through his real life experiences is how many of us who find the hunt more than just a killing. There is a certain percentage on here that see taking an animal is just a killing experience and if they gut shoot or maim an animal, it’s just part of the killing experience for this group. We are just preaching to the choir because these individuals just don’t care.

For profit Retailers Pandering to and creating this 1000yd killing at all cost mentality is what it is. The technology has not exceeded all of the variables in shooting beyond 600 yards under ideal conditions. And most of these long range super hunters using their out of the box 1000 yard laser guns have one or maybe two tags to punch in an entire season. Most have maybe killed one or two big game animals in the past 2-3 years. Most go home eating tag soup . The majority have zero to little experience shooting any game at even 400 yards but they will blast and wound at 1000 yds given the opportunity.

 

[BlackTail]

For profit Retailers Pandering to and creating this 1000yd killing at all cost mentality is what it is. The technology has not exceeded all of the variables in shooting beyond 600 yards under ideal conditions. And most of these long range super hunters using their out of the box 1000 yard laser guns have one or maybe two tags to punch in an entire season. Most have maybe killed one or two big game animals in the past 2-3 years. Most go home eating tag soup . The majority have zero to little experience shooting any game at even 400 yards but they will blast and wound at 1000 yds given the opportunity.

But in the other thread the guys were saying that LR hunting was so easy it wasn’t even real hunting. The animals don’t even have a chance. And LR hunters were killing so many animals that it was literally effecting draw odds.

Now you’re saying these LR hunters don’t have any experience, don’t have any tags, maybe kill an animal every 2-3 years, and most eat tag soup?

Geez, for a Long Range Hunting sub forum, it sure gets hard to keep up with which side of the hate aisle I’m supposed to be on.