Annealing

[Rugger7622]

That's exactly what I notice with the "finger" method.

 

[Weldor]

I'm just taking a dive down the annealing rabbit hole! Is there any other method for detecting temperature other than Tempilaq? Would a heat laser gun work as well? With Templiaq over $50 for the tiny amount needed to determine time in the flame, seems crazy.

Tim

Tempilag is a pain. it has a shelf life. unless you use for alot of brass it goes to waste. I have used to get my base line and the keep a log book for the type and time for ea caliber brass. Have not tried my laser.

 

[BULLBLASTER]

Dark room and orange glow for me. I use a giraud machine and after enough use have gained a feel for how to set it up and how it looks on brass. Though different brands are slightly different.
I have found that i like to err on the side of longer anneal time than short as it makes bullet seating feel much more consistent.

 

[Weldor]

There is some good info on youtube, it is worth checking out.

 

[Rugger7622]

I agree on YouTube, that's where I saw a couple videos of just using your fingers, as long as the brass gets to temp before the heat gets to your fingers!

 

[Vern400]

I got a batch of once fired, same head stamp brass recently. I loaded about 10 and noticed a big difference in bullet seating effort in the press. The only explanation for that is the hardness of the brass.

So I annealed it. I used the Lee lock stud that's used for trimming cases, and a cordless drill to spin it slowly. I held the cases in the flame of a propane torch for about 8 seconds while spinning the cases at about 30 RPM. I adjusted the time in the flame so that my freshly cleaned and annealed brass looked just like my brand new Lapua brass. I tumbled the brass in Walnut media to remove any oxidation or Garbage inside the neck.

After that, all the bullets seated with a lower, and more consistent force in the press. I know I did not overcook the brass. I have no intention of buying an annealing machine. I think this is one of the steps that makes your brass last longer, and may provide a more consistent bullet release Force which may provide a tiny improvement in ES Or groups. Good enough for me.

I'd rather save the money and get a Garmin Xero. I think that will help me more with my process.

 

[manitou1]

I got a batch of once fired, same head stamp brass recently. I loaded about 10 and noticed a big difference in bullet seating effort in the press. The only explanation for that is the hardness of the brass.

So I annealed it. I used the Lee lock stud that's used for trimming cases, and a cordless drill to spin it slowly. I held the cases in the flame of a propane torch for about 8 seconds while spinning the cases at about 30 RPM. I adjusted the time in the flame so that my freshly cleaned and annealed brass looked just like my brand new Lapua brass. I tumbled the brass in Walnut media to remove any oxidation or Garbage inside the neck.

After that, all the bullets seated with a lower, and more consistent force in the press. I know I did not overcook the brass. I have no intention of buying an annealing machine. I think this is one of the steps that makes your brass last longer, and may provide a more consistent bullet release Force which may provide a tiny improvement in ES Or groups. Good enough for me.

I'd rather save the money and get a Garmin Xero. I think that will help me more with my process.

You're gonna love the Garmin.

 

[Rugger7622]

Great thread. For my 300 wsm brass, I’ve switched to a cordless screwdriver and socket and doing it in the dark until the next just turns orange/red. I get that annealed silver look down about 1/4” past the shoulder doing this method. I haven’t loaded any since annealing and I’m curious to see what I find out. I did 10 pieces of nickel brass as well. No annealing line, but the should turned orange the same as brass.

 

[justin davis]

The thing I learned the most from the Hornady podcast is that they found no real difference in brass life from annealing every time vs annealing every 3 times. They said their best performance was 1-2x firing after annealing.

Yea I thought that was interesting as well. Annealing allows your load to stay the same I think thou. So there’s a benefit to annealing after every firing.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Yea I thought that was interesting as well. Annealing allows your load to stay the same I think thou. So there’s a benefit to annealing after every firing.

I've never had a load that needed to be changed from not annealing, it's just another small sample size thing reloaders love to mentally masturbate over. I had to diagnose an issue with rounds being tight on close (ended up my hand primer was leaving primers protruding), and scope bases slipping in my current rifle so I ended up pulling loaded rounds apart. Installed a recoil pin in one of the bases, and for S&G's, I did a test and checked zero with those components.
- 5 pcs of brass were loaded for a couple weeks, then bullets pulled, neck tension was super light on seating.
- 5 bullets were pulled and reseated.
- 5 bullets were from a new lot
- 5 pcs of brass were new with ~.004" interference fit.

10 rounds total shot prone off bipod and rear bag, not trying to get cute and shoot tiny groups, shot as fast as I could load the mag and shoot. Suppressed in 90° heat so mirage was present as well.

 

[Dmoua]

Bipod and rear bag. 10 shots with 13x fired brass annealed after every firing. Shot fast in the heat of the day 90*+. Not saying annealing works but maybe it does.

 

[TimberHunter]

I've never had a load that needed to be changed from not annealing, it's just another small sample size thing reloaders love to mentally masturbate over. I had to diagnose an issue with rounds being tight on close (ended up my hand primer was leaving primers protruding), and scope bases slipping in my current rifle so I ended up pulling loaded rounds apart. Installed a recoil pin in one of the bases, and for S&G's, I did a test and checked zero with those components.
- 5 pcs of brass were loaded for a couple weeks, then bullets pulled, neck tension was super light on seating.
- 5 bullets were pulled and reseated.
- 5 bullets were from a new lot
- 5 pcs of brass were new with ~.004" interference fit.

10 rounds total shot prone off bipod and rear bag, not trying to get cute and shoot tiny groups, shot as fast as I could load the mag and shoot. Suppressed in 90° heat so mirage was present as well.
View attachment 761779

Did you chrono the shots? Wonder if the vel was different?


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[TimberHunter]

For those that anneal every round, do you out anything in the neck (like dry neck lube)?

I’ve heard that annealing can make the brass “stick” to the bullet more…?


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[Dmoua]

For those that anneal every round, do you out anything in the neck (like dry neck lube)?

I’ve heard that annealing can make the brass “stick” to the bullet more…?


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No. Never heard of that. Going on my fourth Dasher barrel since I bought an AMP. I run an expander mandrel through the necks after full length resizing. I am not a BR or F class shooter. My process is strictly for hunting and PRS. If it shoots around or under 1/2” at 100 yards for 10 rounds with good SD’s then I’m ok with it.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Did you chrono the shots? Wonder if the vel was different?

Did not, was just testing it to see if any of those differences would show up on paper.

I’ve heard that annealing can make the brass “stick” to the bullet more…?

I don't have a ton of experience annealing, but in the few lots I've done I notice this sticky feeling when sizing, and I think it's from oxidation on the exterior of the case. I think I'll try tumbling them for a little bit after annealing to see if it smooths out the sizing op. As for inside the neck I didn't notice a difference using graphite lube. I did not clean the necks to bare brass.

 

[TimberHunter]

No. Never heard of that. Going on my fourth Dasher barrel since I bought an AMP. I run an expander mandrel through the necks after full length resizing. I am not a BR or F class shooter. My process is strictly for hunting and PRS. If it shoots around or under 1/2” at 100 yards for 10 rounds with good SD’s then I’m ok with it.

Expander mandrel because your FL die doesn’t have the expander button correct?

And have you ever let ammo sit for a while( assuming you annealed before loading) before shooting it? Any difference in velocity?

I’ve read so much crap about the effects of annealing (mostly in other fudd sites/forums) over the years that I just decided to not do it. But now my Lapua 6.5cm brass is on 8-10 firings and is getting hard and neck tension isn’t very consistent (using FL body tie and then Lee neck sizer)


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[Dmoua]

Expander mandrel because your FL die doesn’t have the expander button correct?

And have you ever let ammo sit for a while( assuming you annealed before loading) before shooting it? Any difference in velocity?

I’ve read so much crap about the effects of annealing (mostly in other fudd sites/forums) over the years that I just decided to not do it. But now my Lapua 6.5cm brass is on 8-10 firings and is getting hard and neck tension isn’t very consistent (using FL body tie and then Lee neck sizer)


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Correct, I use a Redding Type S bushing FL die to size. I have left brass sit for months after annealing/FL resized before I expand the necks to load them. I have also loaded ammo for months and they all shoot the same. Same accuracy same velocities. Believe the target.

 

[IAm_Not_Lost]

Seems like the point of the Tempilaq is just to use a few times when setting up your process. You don’t need to keep using it. You can just go through all the calibers you potentially are going to load for and see how long the optimal time is to heat using whatever process you use (your hand, a drill, a diy spinner, etc).

Or you can just watch a bunch of YouTube videos and average out their times for a given caliber. 7-8 seconds is the most common average I have seen for a medium sized cartridge with a single propane torch being used.

 

[Crockett]

There are more annealing video's on YouTube than you can shake a stick at! I've been reloading since the early 60's and have never annealed anything! However several years ago I bought a .223 and decided to pick up range brass every time I went to the range. Since I now have all types of range brass from Lake City to many commercial brands, I decided I needed to anneal! After watching so many video's on YouTube and wanting an AMP Mark II but not wanting to spend that much money, I finally decided on an Annealeez Generation 4. If you've got the money, buy the AMP -- but if you don't mind using a propane torch and watch accuracy comparisons between using the AMP and propane annealing machines, there isn't much difference in the results on targets!