Anchoring shots/aiming for heavy bone with monolithic bullets

[Sled]

Most bullets of same weight and speed will be fairly similar in trajectory out to 400... Definitely practice with the burgers if you will be carrying two different styll bullets

These are about 7 grains different. What I'm saying is that I can't tell the difference in the grouping either. It's just one circle, three inch or smaller grouping @400 yards. I've always had separate groupings when changing ammo. I even get separate groupings when changing in increments of tenths of a grain when I'm reloading. That's why I see it as fortuitous.

 

[Roughwater]

I have used Barnes copper bullets for years and they are a very good bullet. I still sometimes use them as I have several boxes of them I bought a few years ago. I haven't had issues even when they didn't hit bone.
I've not used them on elk but if they open up fine on deer I don't know why they wouldn't on Elk.

That said, my favorite copper bullets are Hammers. They weigh more consistently, in general they are easier to load as they aren't finnicky concerning how far they are from the lands. I feel they also perform even better on game than Barnes bullets. They can also be loaded to higher velocities than lead bullets by a substantial amount.
This isn't about any hype from from the seller or anyone, just personal experience. But I am not a long range shooter either. I have nothing against it but if I were my bullet selection might be different.
I also like the fact that I have never seen the (out of stock) or backorder button when I go to purchase them.
But they are more expensive than Barnes but not by much. Unlike Barnes, they are designed to quickly shed 3 petals and proceed through an animals body at high speed with basically a flat nose acting similar to a hard cast bullet creating a large permanent wound channel. The petals often exit as well staying close to the bullets path in deer sized game.

 

[roosiebull]

If you want to anchor an elk, shot #1 goes double lungs.... shot #2 goes CNS. I've seen elk run off with a leg missing.

this is really solid advice in my opinion.... put a solid vitals shot on them, then pull the rug from their hooves... almost every time, a double lung shot elk will stand there dazed offering a stationary target to kill more emphatically if you want them to stay put.... if by chance it does run off, then you can take comfort in knowing it probably didn't go far.

i know a few friends that like going straight for the CNS shot (mostly high shoulder) but i don't think that's good general advice to offer up.... like telling a new archery hunter who has never seen an elk taken apart to take a frontal shot.... it's impressive when well executed, but equally as ugly when it isn't executed well

 

[roosiebull]

Hammer copper or any copper/bonded will do on any shot at whatever distance reliable expansion can be achieved. I don't want to cast doubt on the frangible, long range, heavy for caliber bullets however they've come about as long range sniping has become popular versus what a lot of folks considered traditional hunting ranges. They took the more explosive expansion, added more weight and created a market and less meat in the freezer if it's not a barrel busting long-range shot, IMO. It's my opinion long range frangible bullets and mono bullets/controlled expansion bullets cover entirely different spectrums on the hunting continuum. No one denies a mono is not the best bullet for really longer ranges, because of expansion thresholds. Somehow the more frangible bullet crowd get undies in a bundle when those bullets are talked about and the limitations exposed with respect to potential penetration from harder angles and meat loss at closer ranges. None of us can have it both ways, respectfully, IMO.

There are some pretty legit projectiles that fall between mono and match as well, you are right, there will be compromise somewhere, but a bullet like a partition, or the terminal ascent (basically a modernized partition) upset well and hold together well… the couple rifles I shoot the terminal ascents shoot that bullet as well as any, which is why I’m a fan of it until they give me a reason not to be… I do have some hammers to load too, which are attractive to me for the rifle hunting I do.

I wanted to like the ttsx but just wasn’t wowed, but have limited experience with them due to that. They still make a mess when heavy bone is hit, and don’t do as much damage on vitals on rib cage shots… I think in bigger cartridges I would like them, my experience was with a 7 rem mag and 6.5 gender bender

 

[Flyjunky]

I believe there was a podcast that robby Denning pointed out awhile back about copper bullets...kinda interesting..can't remember the name of the podcast

Guy works on a ranch that kills 100 elk a year ? His experiences mirror mine

@robby denning, do you know which podcast Elkangle referring to?

 

[Flyjunky]

There are some pretty legit projectiles that fall between mono and match as well, you are right, there will be compromise somewhere, but a bullet like a partition, or the terminal ascent (basically a modernized partition) upset well and hold together well… the couple rifles I shoot the terminal ascents shoot that bullet as well as any, which is why I’m a fan of it until they give me a reason not to be… I do have some hammers to load too, which are attractive to me for the rifle hunting I do.

I wanted to like the ttsx but just wasn’t wowed, but have limited experience with them due to that. They still make a mess when heavy bone is hit, and don’t do as much damage on vitals on rib cage shots… I think in bigger cartridges I would like them, my experience was with a 7 rem mag and 6.5 gender bender

I stopped using ttsx's after I had 2 of them pencil on animals. One was the elk in my avatar, 478 yards, perfect vials shot but didn't hit bone going in and it was basically a pencil going out. The elk only went about 75 yards but I didn't like what I saw. The second was on a mule deer that basically did the same thing. For me, after those 2 experiences I moved back to lead and won't go back until I'm forced to.

As far as the OP, a 7mm with a good bullet, placed in a good spot is bad medicine for an elk. Stop worrying, practice, and go hunting.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Flyjunky, That's a beautiful bull! What cartridge and weight TTSX were you shooting?

 

[Flyjunky]

Thank you!

180gr out of a 300wm at 3175fps. I'm sure if I would have hit a rib bone going in it would have created a different situation. I could see the bull was hit through the scope but when we went to the spot of the shot there was not a single speck of blood in the snow. I was worried that I actually missed but we followed the tracks and found him.

We were playing hide and seek with a grizzly during the entire week so I would have much preferred the elk to drop on the open hillside instead of running back into the trees, especially since I shot it right before dark. His horns stopped him from sliding down a steep slope thankfully.

 

[Reckless428]

Thank you!

180gr out of a 300wm at 3175fps. I'm sure if I would have hit a rib bone going in it would have created a different situation. I could see the bull was hit through the scope but when we went to the spot of the shot there was not a single speck of blood in the snow. I was worried that I actually missed but we followed the tracks and found him.

We were playing hide and seek with a grizzly during the entire week so I would have much preferred the elk to drop on the open hillside instead of running back into the trees, especially since I shot it right before dark. His horns stopped him from sliding down a steep slope thankfully.

Nice

 

[35WhelenAI]

Nice! Colorado doesn't have to worry about grizzlies at this point. But that makes it exciting if that's the correct term!

 

[Honyock]

For some strange reason I've only used partitions for elk, deer and black bear for the last 35 years. Double lung for me on the first shot and shots 2-? at shoulders if needed.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

.300 winmag Barnes TTSX, 180 gr. double lung. Never took a step, Never knew what hit her,

 

[roosiebull]

@robby denning, do you know which podcast Elkangle referring to?

If you look at this podcast channel, you’ll see it

Good podcast on Wounding Loss

Hey, one of our fellow roksliders @406life (Everett Headley) started the Venery and Veritas podcast. I've caught parts of a few episodes, and seems like some good and even fresh topics This one on wounding loss was good with a very knowledgable guest. surprising number> -Archery vs rifle was...

www.rokslide.com

 

[S-3 ranch]

Dang I’m getting old, we used the OG version of the barns X back in the 1990’s , 300wm 180gr , had to download them become o pressure problem , still got DRT anchor shots on nilgai and caribou, never had any problem with penciling in 30 years, my main gun a 300wm liked federal classic in 180gr never any problem with bone breaking shoulder shots and pass through , but nowadays imo folks shoot way to long distance, those stupid
ELDX are worthless on game inside 200 meters ( flying bombs with terrible penetration)
sit down and find out where you reach 2000fps and pass on 500-700 meter shots ( I saw someone complain about pencil pass through @ 400+ meters with monolith well he shot past the energy zone )
a partiton or accubond, ttsx will maximize close range and long range

 

[Flyjunky]

If you look at this podcast channel, you’ll see it

Good podcast on Wounding Loss

Hey, one of our fellow roksliders @406life (Everett Headley) started the Venery and Veritas podcast. I've caught parts of a few episodes, and seems like some good and even fresh topics This one on wounding loss was good with a very knowledgable guest. surprising number> -Archery vs rifle was...

www.rokslide.com

Thank you!

 

[Flyjunky]

Dang I’m getting old, we need use the OG version of the barns X back in the 1990’s , 300wm 180gr , had to download them become o pressure problem , still got DRT anchor shots on nilgai and caribou, never had any problem with penciling in 30 years, my main gun a 300wm liked federal classic in 180gr never any problem with bone breaking shoulder shots, but nowadays imo folks shoot way to long distance, those stupid
ELDX are worthless on game inside 200 meters ( flying bombs with terrible penetration)
sit down and find out where you reach 2000fps and pass on 500-700 meter shots ( I saw someone complain about pencil pass through @ 400+ meters will monolith well he shot past the energy zone )
a partiton or accubond, ttsx will maximize close range and long range

I'm not sure if you were referring to me about my ttsx pencilling at 400+ but I was way over the 2000fps, actually I was right at 2400fps. Btw, a ttsx will NOT maximize long range work.

According to Barnes the minimum expansion with ttsx is 2000, I'd probably go 2300 as my minimum if I ever used them again because Barnes's definition of expansion and mine don't jive.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Expansion at 1835-2175 fps looks like a decent frontal diameter. The bullet is spinning at well over 200,000 RPM based on 1-10" rifling, that creates a very adequate wound channel with the petals propelling fluid and tissue outward while traveling at 2400 FPS as it spins at over 200,000 rpm. A lead core bullet doesn't have that benefit, IMO. If it holds together, it's a smoother mushroom leading the way spinning with not as much lateral surface are (sides of petals) redirecting fluid in tissue relative to the petals. As the bullet travels through the animal, fluid and tissue is continually is filling in between the petals as they spin slinging more fluid and tissue outward. Petal tips on the X bullets I have recovered are markedly twisted in the direction they would be when spinning through the animal based on right hand twist.

No doubt every bullet has failed at some time or another, bummer at 2400 FPS that TTSX penciled through. How far did the elk travel before you found it anchored to the hillside with its antlers? Just wondering the distance he made it with even pencil holes through the lungs.

 

[SoloWilderness]

Tried a different bullet this year, based on some comments in this thread about fragmentation at closer ranges surrounding the 200g ELD-X I had been using, just for comparisons sake. Shot my bull this year from 176y with a 300wm 190g Nosler ABLR, high angle shot, punched in right below the left backstrap about 6" back from the shoulder, destroyed the right shoulder, without much meat loss, and dropped him in his tracks. Bullet exited after breaking the shoulder. Very impressed with the performance, may very well be changing my go to bullet. He was still alive, but definitely wasn't going to run off. Scrambled down to him and put a finisher on him from 10 yards.