Anchoring shots/aiming for heavy bone with monolithic bullets

[roosiebull]

This is my thinking, I used to shoot 180g Partitions for everything (coming from a .270 to a 300WM), until I had a nice bull soak up 3 solid hits (observed by my hunting partner through binos at 275ish). 1st right behind the front shoulder, quartering away, shattered the offside shoulder but he stayed up and moving, if limping badly. 2nd about 6" back from the first, and 3rd into center mass at about 400 as he topped the ridge. Only found one bullet, the first one, and it was nothing but crumbs, it had completely broken up on the shoulder hit. If I hadn't kept shooting he would have gone a good ways. Still made it almost a mile with 3 bullets in him before he bedded. Won't use those bullets on anything but deer now (which they are fantastic for). Switched to 200g Eld-X LR and next 3 elk I shot dropped in their tracks. 1st was a bull that took 2 hits, but didn't go 10 yards. Next 2 were cows that literally just collapsed on the spot. Best performing bullet I've used on elk by far. No experience with solids, but your thinking on anchoring is solid, but from my experience with broken shoulders, they can still move effectively with one. 2 in the lungs though, they won't go far. Shoot them until they fall over, but I try not to destroy the shoulders, I always aim about 2-3" back from the crease of the front leg. Too much meat wasted IMO if I shoot directly into the shoulder.

What did those shots hit vital wise? I feel like there has to be more to that story… shot 1 behind the shoulder breaking off side shoulder means a 180gr partition started the party by going through both lungs and breaking the shoulder?

I have seen probably 30 shot with rifles (mostly smaller cartridge like creed, 7-08, 270, 308, with a few magnums mixed in with all types of bullets from match to mono… I can’t recall any making it 100yds, even with a few not perfect first shots where they hunch up and don’t go anywhere and let the shooter follow up… the partition has a crazy good track record through history for any close to medium range shots… weird stuff happens, but I can’t see the bullet being the problem in this context

 

[Laramie]

Monos were developed to save the condors and bald eagles.... Not for their superior ability to kill big game. I encourage everyone to look past marketing before deciding.

Monos do kill effectively but they have stark disadvantages if looked at objectively. They also have a few advantages but, imo, those don't outweigh the disadvantages.

Do your homework and make a decision... Just do your best to not focus on biased marketing articles.

 

[kkp005]

This is my thinking, I used to shoot 180g Partitions for everything (coming from a .270 to a 300WM), until I had a nice bull soak up 3 solid hits (observed by my hunting partner through binos at 275ish). 1st right behind the front shoulder, quartering away, shattered the offside shoulder but he stayed up and moving, if limping badly. 2nd about 6" back from the first, and 3rd into center mass at about 400 as he topped the ridge. Only found one bullet, the first one, and it was nothing but crumbs, it had completely broken up on the shoulder hit. If I hadn't kept shooting he would have gone a good ways. Still made it almost a mile with 3 bullets in him before he bedded. Won't use those bullets on anything but deer now (which they are fantastic for). Switched to 200g Eld-X LR and next 3 elk I shot dropped in their tracks. 1st was a bull that took 2 hits, but didn't go 10 yards. Next 2 were cows that literally just collapsed on the spot. Best performing bullet I've used on elk by far. No experience with solids, but your thinking on anchoring is solid, but from my experience with broken shoulders, they can still move effectively with one. 2 in the lungs though, they won't go far. Shoot them until they fall over, but I try not to destroy the shoulders, I always aim about 2-3" back from the crease of the front leg. Too much meat wasted IMO if I shoot directly into the shoulder.

So you had nosler partitions completely come apart and decided to go with a non bonded “cup and core” hornady eld-x ??

 

[Pancake]

To clarify, I mostly meant aiming for heavy bone when the angle presented put bone in the way of the vitals. Like a quartering-to shot, which I wouldn't attempt with a softer bullet or smaller cartridge. I'm not talking about going out of my way to hit bone if it isn't the best way to get to the lungs.

I am curious about people's experience on elk with the classic "high shoulder" shot though.

View attachment 398859

Anybody ever intentionally shot an elk here?

In this scenario, I wouldn't go out of my way to hit bone. I'd go for the V. But I have heard a ton of whitetail guys recommend this shot on deer.

You asked about elk, but I'll second this shot on deer. I've dropped whitetails and mule deer right on the spot with this shot. Physiologically, an elk is essentially a deer that's just way bigger, so don't know why this shot wouldn't work with the right caliber and bullet selection. But as for what that combination is, I'll defer to others that are more knowledgeable.

 

[SoloWilderness]

What did those shots hit vital wise? I feel like there has to be more to that story… shot 1 behind the shoulder breaking off side shoulder means a 180gr partition started the party by going through both lungs and breaking the shoulder?

I have seen probably 30 shot with rifles (mostly smaller cartridge like creed, 7-08, 270, 308, with a few magnums mixed in with all types of bullets from match to mono… I can’t recall any making it 100yds, even with a few not perfect first shots where they hunch up and don’t go anywhere and let the shooter follow up… the partition has a crazy good track record through history for any close to medium range shots… weird stuff happens, but I can’t see the bullet being the problem in this context

1st shot hit both lungs through the back tip of the 1st, 2nd was jelly. It was a fairly steep uphill shot, from prone, off a bipod and pack for a rest, with a good view of the shoulder through the trees. Cleanly missed the heart and close shoulder, destroyed the back shoulder blade. It was the 1st elk I had shot with that rifle and bullet combo, but far from my first elk. We did a post mortem looking for bullets, because it was weird. Also the 1st elk I've had run very far with a firearm, 90% have dropped within a dozen yards. I've had some archery animals that I needed to track down. I'm very comfortable with my rifle out to 400-500 yards, and most shots are about 250-300 that I take, because we primarily hunt canyons. I have used partitions for years on deer, and still do, because they are deadly... I went with the Eld-X to get a heavier bullet, not necessarily to change construction, but to try some different loads, and bullet weights, also tried accubonds, but they didn't group quite as well out of my rifle. I'm curious about peoples thoughts on this, I'm no expert on the effects of bullet construction, outside of experience using them. I had an experienced spotter watching the shots, and he called them as good. I've also dug Eld-Xs out and they have mushroomed, and held together well. I was more than anything seconding the thought that you shoot until they drop, which is how I was taught. 1st shot in the vitals, 2nd to anchor them and make sure they stay down. Rifle was a Remington model 700 Sendero 26" barrel.

 

[wildwilderness]

I like monos as well. They definitely have their place in hunting.

Penetration is the advantage from what I’ve seen, especially on closer high velocity shots where most of the anecdotal “failures” of fragmenting “target” bullets occur on game. I prefer two holes to one, or a broken major bone

I will aim for bone on elk if it’s on the way to vitals. I have killed many with a 168ttsx out of a 300 wsm. Farthest was 792 yds, though long distance in not their forte

The Hammers also have done well on deer for me. They are designed to shed their petals so the shank will continue going

 

[roosiebull]

1st shot hit both lungs through the back tip of the 1st, 2nd was jelly. It was a fairly steep uphill shot, from prone, off a bipod and pack for a rest, with a good view of the shoulder through the trees. Cleanly missed the heart and close shoulder, destroyed the back shoulder blade. It was the 1st elk I had shot with that rifle and bullet combo, but far from my first elk. We did a post mortem looking for bullets, because it was weird. Also the 1st elk I've had run very far with a firearm, 90% have dropped within a dozen yards. I've had some archery animals that I needed to track down. I'm very comfortable with my rifle out to 400-500 yards, and most shots are about 250-300 that I take, because we primarily hunt canyons. I have used partitions for years on deer, and still do, because they are deadly... I went with the Eld-X to get a heavier bullet, not necessarily to change construction, but to try some different loads, and bullet weights, also tried accubonds, but they didn't group quite as well out of my rifle. I'm curious about peoples thoughts on this, I'm no expert on the effects of bullet construction, outside of experience using them. I had an experienced spotter watching the shots, and he called them as good. I've also dug Eld-Xs out and they have mushroomed, and held together well. I was more than anything seconding the thought that you shoot until they drop, which is how I was taught. 1st shot in the vitals, 2nd to anchor them and make sure they stay down. Rifle was a Remington model 700 Sendero 26" barrel.

That makes a lot more sense….. I’m not going suggest you change anything, I am a firm believer in trying different things and letting experience guide the way, and the eldx is a good bullet, but they are a much softer bullet and can act weird at closer ranges vs partition. The terminal ascent is another worth trying, I don’t think there is a much better bullet inside 500yds (they are supposed to work well at lower impact speed, but I have not seen them used in that context, so can’t speak on it)

I don’t blame you for not wanting to shoot partitions anymore, but in your case, I don’t think it was the bullet, and the eldx may have functioned better on that bull (may have disrupted better and caused more damage to the on side lung)

Thanks for the elaboration, sounds like it was just a tricky angle but I’m glad you were able to recover your bull… I shot a bull with my bow this year and had a similar angle and he just shed his antlers about 10 days ago and looks perfectly healthy… it’s beyond crazy… I was 100% confident I had a dead bull, and I want to kill that bull this year to hopefully solve the mystery of what I actually hit, but you can clearly see the entrance and exit on this bull… it exited high, but still… left side is entrance… huge bodied tough roosie, but I was happy to glass him up a few weeks ago alive and seemingly healthy… weird stuff can happen

 

[SoloWilderness]

That makes a lot more sense….. I’m not going suggest you change anything, I am a firm believer in trying different things and letting experience guide the way, and the eldx is a good bullet, but they are a much softer bullet and can act weird at closer ranges vs partition. The terminal ascent is another worth trying, I don’t think there is a much better bullet inside 500yds (they are supposed to work well at lower impact speed, but I have not seen them used in that context, so can’t speak on it)

I don’t blame you for not wanting to shoot partitions anymore, but in your case, I don’t think it was the bullet, and the eldx may have functioned better on that bull (may have disrupted better and caused more damage to the on side lung)

Thanks for the elaboration, sounds like it was just a tricky angle but I’m glad you were able to recover your bull… I shot a bull with my bow this year and had a similar angle and he just shed his antlers about 10 days ago and looks perfectly healthy… it’s beyond crazy… I was 100% confident I had a dead bull, and I want to kill that bull this year to hopefully solve the mystery of what I actually hit, but you can clearly see the entrance and exit on this bull… it exited high, but still… left side is entrance… huge bodied tough roosie, but I was happy to glass him up a few weeks ago alive and seemingly healthy… weird stuff can happen

Hopefully you get that bull this year... Would be interesting to see, I'm sure there is some scar tissue you could find that might tell the story. Ultimately, they are incredibly tough animals, and can live through things you wouldn't think they could...
I'm sure someone who is more well versed than I am can explain the physics of the different bullets at various velocities, etc. I have shot cows (never a bull) with partitions out of my .270 at 100-300 yards and never had issues. I will continue to use them for mule deer, or even cows, but am hesitant to use them on bull elk. We thought it maybe had to do with the higher velocity/ energy of the WM and longer barrel. But again, just a best guess. Might have just been a freak incident (maybe a branch we didn't see slowed the bullet or deflected it slightly, it was through a window in the trees.) I'll try those terminal ascents out as well, I'm still fiddling with the perfect setup for this rifle. Thanks.

 

[Tmac]

To clarify, I mostly meant aiming for heavy bone when the angle presented put bone in the way of the vitals. Like a quartering-to shot, which I wouldn't attempt with a softer bullet or smaller cartridge. I'm not talking about going out of my way to hit bone if it isn't the best way to get to the lungs.

I am curious about people's experience on elk with the classic "high shoulder" shot though.

View attachment 398859

Anybody ever intentionally shot an elk here?

In this scenario, I wouldn't go out of my way to hit bone. I'd go for the V. But I have heard a ton of whitetail guys recommend this shot on deer.

I’ve intentionally used a hi shoulder shot on elk. Properly placed it is an instant drop. In my case the Bull was close, about to go into some bad stuff, so I dropped him offhand with a hi shoulder shot at about 60 yards. I don’t recommend it unless one is well schooled in where to place it, if you are a little hi it can go bad quickly. I only use it up close or off a dead solid rest at relaxed game.

 

[WCB]

160 grain Federal Trophy Bonded Tip out of my 7rem Mag. good traditional lead type expansion but 90+% weight retention with solid copper making up over half the bullet. I shoot shoulders all the time. Ill obviously slide it back if hard quartering away but I don't remember the last animal I shot in the crease or behind the crease of the shoulder on any thing even remotely broadside.

As far as high shoulder shots....if you know elk anatomy well enough and can do it go for it. I just see a greater chance for issues even more so shooting at severe angles. I always told my clients straight up the leg take 6" or so off the top of the animal and place the bullet middle to lower 1/3 of shoulder and let it rip.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

To clarify, I mostly meant aiming for heavy bone when the angle presented put bone in the way of the vitals. Like a quartering-to shot, which I wouldn't attempt with a softer bullet or smaller cartridge. I'm not talking about going out of my way to hit bone if it isn't the best way to get to the lungs.

I am curious about people's experience on elk with the classic "high shoulder" shot though.

View attachment 398859

Anybody ever intentionally shot an elk here?

In this scenario, I wouldn't go out of my way to hit bone. I'd go for the V. But I have heard a ton of whitetail guys recommend this shot on deer.

I despise shooting there because I do all my own processing and sorting through that mess is just a huge PITA. I'd rather just not shoot the animal than put a bullet there.

 

[cgasner1]

Guess I don’t get why a guy would wanna shoot at a smaller target with more room for error I’d rather put it behind the shoulder and have more room for error may still end up breaking that shoulder or if your off the other way catch a liver


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RMM]

I killed my bull in Montana with a 180gr accubond out of my 300 win mag. Bull came out at 320yds, aimed high shoulder, bang flop. Not a ton of meat damage to speak of at all.

 

[HiMtnHntr]

The problem with behind the shoulder on elk in rough terrain, especially with a mono, is lack of expansion and damage. Sure, the elk will most likely die, but how far down a canyon will you have to chase it? Been there, done that. It's not for me.

 

[wind gypsy]

To clarify, I mostly meant aiming for heavy bone when the angle presented put bone in the way of the vitals. Like a quartering-to shot, which I wouldn't attempt with a softer bullet or smaller cartridge. I'm not talking about going out of my way to hit bone if it isn't the best way to get to the lungs.

I am curious about people's experience on elk with the classic "high shoulder" shot though.

View attachment 398859

Anybody ever intentionally shot an elk here?

In this scenario, I wouldn't go out of my way to hit bone. I'd go for the V. But I have heard a ton of whitetail guys recommend this shot on deer.

I've seen enough youtube jackasses mess that shot up trying to get a bang flop on film and turn it into a rodeo to illustrate the logic in why it's a bad idea.

There is a big ol vital area on a broadside elk. Why someone would aim somewhere else where they have a much smaller margin for error is beyond me.

 

[Hnttillmt]

I’m guessing most of the responses that are against the shoulder shot are from people that haven’t been around very many elk kills. Know your rifle and bullet limitations. Know your anatomy. Know how to shoot. YouTube logic aside, a lot of experienced elk hunters preferred shot is the shoulder.

 

[35WhelenAI]

35 Whelen is definitely BA. I went with the 35 AI and have never looked back. Plenty of grunt at 400 yds and a bit more with the 200 TTSX. Barnes was ahead of the game when they came out with copper a long time ago. I choose them because of all the advantages mentioned here. Lead bans from hunting bullets wasn't on the radar then. Haven't lost an animal in 30 years of hunting with them. If they don't have enough ballistic coefficient to carry velocity to open, I would counter hunters would do well to hunt instead of snipe from a half mile. It is a fact lead that gets into the ecosystem and is causing a dangerous situation for the great Raptors. From experience, I know how well monos work, instead of listening to the marketing on forums to the contrary. It's a simple fact lead will eventually be a part of the past with respect to bullets.

 

[Elkangle]

Check out what some guys are doing with 120 grain hammers and ultramags..kinda interesting

 

[35WhelenAI]

Hammers or any other mono are a great performer when light weights are driven fast. They just don't come apart unless designed to and the extra velocity can make up for ballistic coefficient to a decent extent. I run the 110 TTSX in the 270 Win (3400 fps), my son shot his first cow elk dead on the sternum at 30 yards and drilled a hole straight into the vitals. The vitals were put out of commission. I never did find that bullet but I am fairly certain that one did not exit. It was bloody cold that night when field dressing and wasn't gonna go through the stomach that had frozen solid by the next day when we got back. I run the 130 TTSX in the '06 (3320 fps) my other son uses. His first elk was hit high and destroyed the spine 6-8 inches back from the base of the neck. Dropped on the spot and needed a finisher that penetrated fully at 10 yds or so. Furrowed a hole into the ground on the off-side. Did not find it but even at close range made it through, although no major bone was hit on the finisher through the vitals.

 

[DawnPatrol]

Anybody intentionally aim for the shoulder when shooting copper bullets?

No, but I hit an elk in the “high shoulder” spot a couple years ago using a copper mono bullet (180 gr. TTSX) from a 30-06 at about 90 yards. Elk died very fast (destroyed both shoulders, some lung, and I think disrupted the spine), but not bang-flop.

However, the bullet did not exit (found it in the ball joint of the off-side shoulder) so there was no blood trail.

The other thing that gives me pause about taking a high shoulder shot, with this set-up, in the future was that the elk I shot was a yearling cow; so a big bull could legitimately be almost twice the animal. Hard to say how that might change the outcome, but can’t think it would improve the penetration.

Otherwise, I have taken (and seen others take) several shots on elk that go through one or both leg bones on their way too or from the heart/lungs area low in the chest. The copper mono bullets involved (168 and 180 grs TTSX from 30-06s and 300 win mags within 200 yds) all performed great and resulted in pass-through shots and quick kills.

I do not hesitate to take a quartering-to shot with this set up (I also don’t shoot over 300 yds), but I aim for the heart/lungs, even if through the front leg.