American Prairie loses grazing rights

[Sandhills]

Great point. Something that I like to point out to private land owners is that they can help themselves and other by being friendly to public land hunters. Being friendly to public land users/hunters does not always mean allowing the public to hunt the property. It can mean allowing access along an established path, trail, or road to otherwise inaccessible or difficult to access public land or allowing people to retrieve shot game if it crosses the property boundary. By doing those 2 things alone private land owners can help to maximize public land opportunity without having potential issues with people hunting on a property which sometimes is not practical or the landowner simply does not want to grant access for.

A lot of guys will let you do that. But some people for whatever reason, be it jealousy or fear of litigation or whatever, can be dicks about access.

My father in law has a group of guys from Michigan that come every year and archery hunt his place and several neighbors in southern Nebraska the week before rifle season. One year a guy crippled a buck and it got on the neighbors place. The hunter saw the buck go down and also saw a tractor in the field fertilizing. He drove over and asked the guy in the tractor, who was the landowners son, if he could retrieve his deer. The tractor operator said sure go ahead. While doing retrieving the deer, the landowner drove by and saw them. He called the game warden. Game warden came and wrote the Michigan hunter a ticket while the landowner was present. His son drove up and said dad I gave em permission to get the deer. His dad's response was Your name ain't on the ground and if you do that again you can't hunt out here either. The landowner is first cousin to my mother-in-law.

Assholes are everywhere. I've dealt with some pretty shitty people on public land while duck, pheasant, and bear hunting with hounds. There's been some pretty contentious moments too. Never did take kindly to some asshole deer hunter with a bear tag in his pocket coming in and shooting a bear out of a tree that my dogs put up there. Especially when they don't tie off any of em.

 

[CJ19]

A lot of guys will let you do that. But some people for whatever reason, be it jealousy or fear of litigation or whatever, can be dicks about access.

My father in law has a group of guys from Michigan that come every year and archery hunt his place and several neighbors in southern Nebraska the week before rifle season. One year a guy crippled a buck and it got on the neighbors place. The hunter saw the buck go down and also saw a tractor in the field fertilizing. He drove over and asked the guy in the tractor, who was the landowners son, if he could retrieve his deer. The tractor operator said sure go ahead. While doing retrieving the deer, the landowner drove by and saw them. He called the game warden. Game warden came and wrote the Michigan hunter a ticket while the landowner was present. His son drove up and said dad I gave em permission to get the deer. His dad's response was Your name ain't on the ground and if you do that again you can't hunt out here either. The landowner is first cousin to my mother-in-law.

Assholes are everywhere. I've dealt with some pretty shitty people on public land while duck, pheasant, and bear hunting with hounds. There's been some pretty contentious moments too. Never did take kindly to some asshole deer hunter with a bear tag in his pocket coming in and shooting a bear out of a tree that my dogs put up there. Especially when they don't tie off any of em.

there is no doubt some people can be jerks. sometimes those interactions are the result of a previously bad experience or something that may not be immediately apparent. I am not defending the jerks, but I am familiar with complex situations with landownership that the public would not be aware of that influences how those types of situations shake out. it is one of the thing that frustrates me immensely when i read public hunters descriptions or posts about private land or landowners. It might be a jerk issue or it might be the general public does not know issue.

 

[Sandhills]

there is no doubt some people can be jerks. sometimes those interactions are the result of a previously bad experience or something that may not be immediately apparent. I am not defending the jerks, but I am familiar with complex situations with landownership that the public would not be aware of that influences how those types of situations shake out. it is one of the thing that frustrates me immensely when i read public hunters descriptions or posts about private land or landowners. It might be a jerk issue or it might be the general public does not know issue.

According to my dad, used to be anyone you asked about goose hunting used to let you when he was growing up. By the time I came around one ranch allowed access. There was another that had a goose club on it. Only one guy was active and hunted it only a couple times a year. Wouldn't let anyone else join. Since I've moved I guess things have got tighter on the place that allowed access because people were going in with out permission from the owner or driving on wet fields.

I got access on a couple ranches a bit further away, some I was the only guy outside family to hunt. I offered to help fence, work brandings, hay, and help during calving. Still do that sort of thing today. I'm not saying everyone has the ability to do that but a little sweat equity goes a long way on access.

 

[WRO]

How is cattle grazing on public lands for profit part of North American conservation model?

Also the APR has several full time employees and brings in tourists from around the country, how does this not support both the national and local economy?

@Gila are you going to participate in the mental gymnastics Olympics for gold today and answer my questions or not?


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[KurtR]

According to my dad, used to be anyone you asked about goose hunting used to let you when he was growing up. By the time I came around one ranch allowed access. There was another that had a goose club on it. Only one guy was active and hunted it only a couple times a year. Wouldn't let anyone else join. Since I've moved I guess things have got tighter on the place that allowed access because people were going in with out permission from the owner or driving on wet fields.

I got access on a couple ranches a bit further away, some I was the only guy outside family to hunt. I offered to help fence, work brandings, hay, and help during calving. Still do that sort of thing today. I'm not saying everyone has the ability to do that but a little sweat equity goes a long way on access.

Yep a little common sense goes along ways. If it’s went don’t tear shit up. I help a lot of places and have a lot of permission to hunt and am the only one waterfowl especially I have land owners call and see if we are going before they give permission to some one else. Made some good friends going with people I never knew. More people scouting and we share feeds.

 

[Gila]

@Gila are you going to participate in the mental gymnastics Olympics for gold today and answer my questions or not?


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From Montana.gov:

“In September 2021, Gov. Gianforte, the Montana Department of Natural Resources and Conservation, Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks, Montana Department of Livestock, and the Montana Department of Agriculture objected to BLM’s environmental analysis and proposed permit issuance, explaining the deficiencies and requesting the permits be denied. Despite these objections, BLM authorized the grazing change in July 2022”

Our excise taxes hard at work!

EarthJustice are AP attorneys:

“A wealth of research makes clear that hunting with lead ammunition harms both people and wildlife,” said Aaron Bloom, senior attorney with Earthjustice’s Biodiversity Defense Program.”

 

[Gila]

Not correct. Most research shows their habits are very different

Not enough that cattle can’t accomplish the task of rejuvenating the prairie.

 

[WRO]

From Montana.gov:

“In September 2021, Gov. Gianforte, the Montana Department of Natural Resources and Conservation, Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks, Montana Department of Livestock, and the Montana Department of Agriculture objected to BLM’s environmental analysis and proposed permit issuance, explaining the deficiencies and requesting the permits be denied. Despite these objections, BLM authorized the grazing change in July 2022”

Our excise taxes hard at work!

EarthJustice are AP attorneys:

“A wealth of research makes clear that hunting with lead ammunition harms both people and wildlife,” said Aaron Bloom, senior attorney with Earthjustice’s Biodiversity Defense Program.”

Tom Opre says:

"Earthjustice is not a conservation organization, Opre writes. "It is a well-known anti-use, anti-hunting, preservationist litigation group whose entire model is built on suing to restrict grazing, end hunting, block predator management, and undermine science-based wildlife authority." Opre added that "when you partner with an organization that openly rejects sustainable use, rejects the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation, and routinely works against hunters, ranchers, and tribal wildlife use" people are right to ask more questions.”

Wtf is this nonsense?

Earth justice position on lead ammo has exactly 0 to do with anything relevant to bison and public land grazing, and excise taxes don’t fund the blm.

You want to try again?

0.0


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[Gila]

Aaron Flint:

“The APR has already been treated like public enemy number one by Montana's agriculture community, and now they're being ripped by a prominent advocate for the wildlife and sportsmen's community. This, after the American Prairie Reserve teamed up with the radical environmental group Earthjustice.”

 

[Gila]

Wtf is this nonsense?

You want to try again?

0.0


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Take your blinders off for a few minutes and you might see the world as it truly is!

 

[Gila]

Some more pieces from Aaron Flint:

“Now, the far Left APR is publicly teaming up with the radical environmental group Earthjustice to file suit. Click here for the press release.

And that is what apparently set off Tom Opre, a filmmaker and wildlife and sportsmen's advocate based here in Montana. He produced a recent documentary called "The Real Yellowstone" where he interviewed all sides of the APR debate.

"Earthjustice is not a conservation organization, Opre writes. "It is a well-known anti-use, anti-hunting, preservationist litigation group whose entire model is built on suing to restrict grazing, end hunting, block predator management, and undermine science-based wildlife authority." Opre added that "when you partner with an organization that openly rejects sustainable use, rejects the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation, and routinely works against hunters, ranchers, and tribal wildlife use" people are right to ask more questions.”

 

[WRO]

Take your blinders off for a few minutes and you might see the world as it truly is!

0.0 try again, please consider using facts and coherent sentences in your next response, not cut and pasting someone else’s talking points.

 

[WRO]

Not enough that cattle can’t accomplish the task of rejuvenating the prairie.

How have they done the last 200 years done rejuvenating the prairie?

 

[Gila]

How have they done the last 200 years done rejuvenating the prairie?

The last 25 years with the Mortensen Principle…don’t even read my posts huh?

 

[WRO]

The last 25 years with the Mortensen Principle…don’t even read my posts huh?

I wish I didn’t most of the time.

Anyways it’s not prevalent despite what you read on the internets.

Good job not actually answering any questions.

If you have opinions you should be able to support them with facts. Ie why do tourism jobs and dollars not contribute to the economy? Or how does cattle grazing on public land benefit the North American conservation model?

 

[Gila]

I wish I didn’t most of the time.

Anyways it’s not prevalent despite what you read on the internets.

Good job not actually answering any questions.

If you have opinions you should be able to support them with facts. Ie why do tourism jobs and dollars not contribute to the economy? Or how does cattle grazing on public land benefit the North American conservation model?

You wouldn’t know what a fact was if it bit you in the arse!

From SD.gov

———————————————————————

Mortenson Ranch Featured in Smithsonian Exhibit Coming to Cultural Heritage Center​

PIERRE -- The vast North American prairie and the progressive farmers and ranchers who use production methods that preserve the prairie environment are the focus of Listening to the Prairie: Farming in Nature’s Image, a national traveling exhibit that will be at the South Dakota Cultural Heritage Center from Jan. 9 through Feb. 20.

Every American depends in some way on the Great Plains for food and fiber, but few think about how their food is produced, or the economic, ecological and social costs of production. Listening to the Prairie takes viewers on a journey through the life, landscape and natural world of the North American prairie using photographs, a colorful mural, and a striking replica of a windmill. The South Dakota State Historical Society, headquartered at the Cultural Heritage Center, and Rawlins Municipal Library collaborated to bring the exhibit to Pierre.

Listening to the Prairie features four farmers and ranchers who use crop, livestock, and cattle management techniques to maximize their output and preserve the prairie ecosystem. The Mortenson Ranch, near Hayes, is showcased in the exhibit.

In the 1940s, Clarence Mortenson, a member of the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe, began a decades-long project to improve his ranch’s environment by managing grazing, building dams and planting trees to slow runoff from storms and melting snow. Planting native grasses, trees, and other plants has encouraged native insects and wildlife. Grazing cattle in intentional patterns to mimic native bison has nearly eliminated erosion, increased forage production, and raised the ranch’s underground water level.

Jeff Mortenson, Clarence’s son, has built a thriving seed business based on the ranch’s native plants. Other sons, Curt and Todd, run the cattle enterprise. The Mortenson Ranch has been featured in national media outlets and in a range management handbook for farmers and extension educators.

"The Cultural Heritage Center is very fortunate to have been selected as a site for this exhibition," said Jay D. Vogt, historical society deputy director. "By partnering with Rawlins Library we were able to bring the exhibit to Pierre so the community can see how farmers and ranchers today are conserving the prairie ecosystem for future generations."

 

[WRO]

You wouldn’t know what a fact was if it bit you in the arse!

From SD.gov

———————————————————————

Mortenson Ranch Featured in Smithsonian Exhibit Coming to Cultural Heritage Center​

PIERRE -- The vast North American prairie and the progressive farmers and ranchers who use production methods that preserve the prairie environment are the focus of Listening to the Prairie: Farming in Nature’s Image, a national traveling exhibit that will be at the South Dakota Cultural Heritage Center from Jan. 9 through Feb. 20.

Every American depends in some way on the Great Plains for food and fiber, but few think about how their food is produced, or the economic, ecological and social costs of production. Listening to the Prairie takes viewers on a journey through the life, landscape and natural world of the North American prairie using photographs, a colorful mural, and a striking replica of a windmill. The South Dakota State Historical Society, headquartered at the Cultural Heritage Center, and Rawlins Municipal Library collaborated to bring the exhibit to Pierre.

Listening to the Prairie features four farmers and ranchers who use crop, livestock, and cattle management techniques to maximize their output and preserve the prairie ecosystem. The Mortenson Ranch, near Hayes, is showcased in the exhibit.

In the 1940s, Clarence Mortenson, a member of the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe, began a decades-long project to improve his ranch’s environment by managing grazing, building dams and planting trees to slow runoff from storms and melting snow. Planting native grasses, trees, and other plants has encouraged native insects and wildlife. Grazing cattle in intentional patterns to mimic native bison has nearly eliminated erosion, increased forage production, and raised the ranch’s underground water level.

Jeff Mortenson, Clarence’s son, has built a thriving seed business based on the ranch’s native plants. Other sons, Curt and Todd, run the cattle enterprise. The Mortenson Ranch has been featured in national media outlets and in a range management handbook for farmers and extension educators.

"The Cultural Heritage Center is very fortunate to have been selected as a site for this exhibition," said Jay D. Vogt, historical society deputy director. "By partnering with Rawlins Library we were able to bring the exhibit to Pierre so the community can see how farmers and ranchers today are conserving the prairie ecosystem for future generations."

What does the tell us about how prevalent these practices are in general and even on public land?

I’ll wait.

Are you going to answer the other questions or just continue to c and p non relevant articles in effort to conceal the fact that their opinions with no basis in reality.

 

[Gila]

What does the tell us about how prevalent these practices are in general and even on public land?

I’ll wait.

Are you going to answer the other questions or just continue to c and p non relevant articles in effort to conceal the fact that their opinions with no basis in reality.

Apparently Montana Department of Natural Resources and Conservation, Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks, Montana Department of Livestock, and the Montana Department of Agriculture have figured it all out….why don’t you go and ask them? They opposed the AP grazing because of the environmental impact study…you know the EIS, EIR that is required?

 

[WRO]

Apparently Montana Department of Natural Resources and Conservation, Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks, Montana Department of Livestock, and the Montana Department of Agriculture have figured it all out….why don’t you go and ask them? They opposed the AP grazing because of the environmental impact study…you know the EIS, EIR that is required?

The EIS study had nothing to do with it, it had everything to do with politics.

https://agr.mt.gov/News/Gianforte-Praises-BLM-Decision-to-Cancel-APR-Bison-Permits.

Do you have any facts that show a negative environmental impact that bison have on the native landscape? Not conjecture, facts. Do you have a copy of the EIS showing the negative impacts?

Just for refer the blm cited no environmental issues in their 2021 EIS review.

https://www.science.org/content/article/bigger-home-range-montana-bison

 

[Gila]

The EIS study had nothing to do with it, it had everything to do with politics.

https://agr.mt.gov/News/Gianforte-Praises-BLM-Decision-to-Cancel-APR-Bison-Permits.

Do you have any facts that show a negative environmental impact that bison have on the native landscape? Not conjecture, facts. Do you have a copy of the EIS showing the negative impacts?

It seems like I have to post things over and over again before you pick up on it. If you don’t know what is going on then stop being so lazy and get out there on the internet and find out! I’m about ready to put you back on IGNORE if you don’t come around.

From Montana.gov:

“In September 2021, Gov. Gianforte, the Montana Department of Natural Resources and Conservation, Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks, Montana Department of Livestock, and the Montana Department of Agriculture objected to BLM’s environmental analysis and proposed permit issuance, explaining the deficiencies and requesting the permits be denied. Despite these objections, BLM authorized the grazing change in July 2022”