American Prairie loses grazing rights

[WRO]

I've been on some parcels in MT that were stripped bare by the thousands of sheep they had on it. Not a single huntable animal to be found.

Not mention all of the wild sheep
Die offs and habitat we can’t reintroduce wild sheep to because of domestic sheep.

I can see a place for cattle on public lands, not a place for sheep.


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[PLhunter]

I've been on some parcels in MT that were stripped bare by the thousands of sheep they had on it. Not a single huntable animal to be found.

Even though I drove and branded cattle as a kid and worked a cattle ranch for a summer in college the politics of the modern cattle rancher has left me with only a few points of agreement. Hatred for those land maggots is one of them.

There were 2 million wild sheep on this continent. Now it’s a once in many lifetime chance to hunt them. Because of the rugged nature of their habitat plenty of it remains but is empty. Almost exclusively because of domestic sheep diseases. Hunters should be up in arms about it but instead we stick to the same old logic seen in this thread. “Well what about the poor [insert well resourced and lobbied industry here]?”

 

[NRA4LIFE]

Almost exclusively because of domestic sheep diseases.

No doubt about it. Been happening here in WA for years. And what the vast majority of hunters who put in for an OIL sheep permit for 50+ years don't understand, will never draw one.

 

[PLhunter]

No doubt about it. Been happening here in WA for years. And what the vast majority of hunters who put in for an OIL sheep permit for 50+ years don't understand, will never draw one.

And we just accept that status quo and pass it down in even worse shape for our kids. No real fight from hunters because we are too busy arguing with one another about whether or not wool producers generate more total tax revenue than hunters with the “need more tax revenue from sheep” crowd almost universally being the same crowd that cries “taxation is theft!” in the next browser window over.

We haven’t established a tie between CWD and brain diseases yet but I think the results of a study of severe cognitive dissonance and ingestion of venison would send the CDC into a panic.

 

[CJ19]

The sky isn't falling, every time there's change the whole internet gets tribal and thinks it’s the end of the world as we know it. The reason we have clean water, national parks, public lands, is because people bucked the system.

I'm going to support causes that are good for hunters and conservation, regradless of sponsonship. This is a minor event on the scale, but a step in the right direction from looking at our public lands as a profit center to preserving them. I'm sure the euro trash wants to turn us all gay and take our guns, but we live in a system of checks and balances.

We've lost more cattle on the landscape from market attrition and natural disasters the last decade than 3%.

Why are you opposed to restoring the landscape in a small section of MT?

I didn't mention anything about scale for the american people, just my freezer.

The whole hunting access thing is a red herring. 1) They can't ban hunting on public lands they lease. 2) We have landowners of all political leanings posting no tresspassing signs.

For a counterpoint, we have non ESG public lands ranching locally, the range gets nuked most years and then the ranchers whine to IDFG about the elk hitting their private winter ground because its the only food source left, leading to elk getting slaughtered every winter for cheap beef.

i didnt say i was opposed it. i said i was concerned by the operating model and the entities involved. The Nature Conservancy isn't far off from AP and i don't agree with their politics. I enjoy plenty of NC conservancy's properties and appreciate them for how they manage them. No reason AP can't end up that way but there is certainly risk involved.

as far as your 3% percentage not mattering and "small" section of land in MT and just filling your freezer ect. disagree with all of that.

 

[WRO]

i didnt say i was opposed it. i said i was concerned by the operating model and the entities involved. The Nature Conservancy isn't far off from AP and i don't agree with their politics. I enjoy plenty of NC conservancy's properties and appreciate them for how they manage them. No reason AP can't end up that way but there is certainly risk involved.

as far as your 3% percentage not mattering and "small" section of land in MT and just filling your freezer ect. disagree with all of that.

Facts don’t care about your feelings.

United States Cattle Inventory Report

USDA National Agricultural Statistics Service Information. NASS publications cover a wide range of subjects, from traditional crops, such as corn and wheat, to specialties, such as mushrooms and flowers; from calves born to hogs slaughtered; from agricultural prices to land in farms. The agency...

www.nass.usda.gov

We’re lost more than 3% of the population of cattle in the us in the last 3 years.

My freezers are full, I’m good..

 

[CJ19]

Facts don’t care about your feelings.

United States Cattle Inventory Report

USDA National Agricultural Statistics Service Information. NASS publications cover a wide range of subjects, from traditional crops, such as corn and wheat, to specialties, such as mushrooms and flowers; from calves born to hogs slaughtered; from agricultural prices to land in farms. The agency...

www.nass.usda.gov

We’re lost more than 3% of the population of cattle in the us in the last 3 years.

My freezers are full, I’m good..

Right because your freezer is how agricultural policy across the country should be established. Not an uncommon, but uninformed attitude among hunters. "I got mine, who cares about everyone else". If you think it is somehow a "pwn" on me, its not. I can fill my freezer easily with my own beef or venison without ever stepping foot off my property if and when i choose. Your bizarre ax grinding session with Gila and western ranchers is not really my concern, large amounts of public land and the associated environmental policy does. Beef taken off the market is beef off the market. Its a cumulative effect. And your comment about checks and balances simply does not apply to AP and its private holdings. They can set whatever policies and management practices they want so long as its within the law, which apparently no longer includes Americans subsidizing their bison if I understand this correctly.

 

[isItFallYet]

@rokslideai, please paraphrase this for me!

 

[isItFallYet]

@rokslideai, please paraphrase this for me!

Or someone give the rundown on this so I don’t waste a whole poop reading stupid comments!

 

[WRO]

Right because your freezer is how agricultural policy across the country should be established. Not an uncommon, but uninformed attitude among hunters. "I got mine, who cares about everyone else". If you think it is somehow a "pwn" on me, its not. I can fill my freezer easily with my own beef or venison without ever stepping foot off my property if and when i choose. Your bizarre ax grinding session with Gila and western ranchers is not really my concern. Beef taken off the market is beef off the market. Its a cumulative effect. And your comment about checks and balances simply does not apply to AP and its private holdings. They can set whatever policies and management practices they want so long as its within the law, which apparently no longer includes Americans subsidizing their bison.

So beef is more important than native bison on public land?

I have no issues with ranchers as a general rule, I take issue when the government cowers at their lobby at the expense of our wildlife and wild places.


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[CJ19]

So beef is more important than native bison on public land?

I have no issues with ranchers as a general rule, I take issue when the government cowers at their lobby at the expense of our wildlife and wild places.


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If i am subsidizing agriculture for the animal to be produced and sent to market then yes. But this looks like the intended purpose is conservation or sustainability project. not an agricultural one. legislate the subsides that way.

If you could not hunt on AP's private or the adjacent public land would you feel the same way about it?

 

[medvedyt]

Whoever said they couldn’t?

you should re read the thread ...