American Made & the Price Wage Squeeze

[Matt W.]

Its not a level playing field. To run a business in the US is to deal with an amount of paperwork BS that is hard to fathom. Since most have never run a business, its blind to them. That is why the reduction in regulatory BS and reduced taxes was so well received before the COVID attack on us. Its no mystery. Level the playing field and US companies will compete with anyone.

And yes, I'll pay more for quailty US made products as well.

The paperwork and regulations.. Out of curiosity... How much is state vs fed?

 

[peterk123]

There is another side to this as well that needs to be considered. Take steel as an example. We placed our country at great risk by letting the steel industry go. I think Trump recognized that and took corrective actions. But think about it. If China decided to exercise its Military strength, and we had no steel made here, well.... we would have a bit of a problem.

Regulations are one side of the coin. Some is required for obvious reasons. The living wage I would think is what causes the greatest disparity in pricing. I am a strong believer in using tariffs to bring overseas pricing of products in line with domestic. Not sure how you make sure that domestic pricing stays competitive (other than to make sure there are no domestic oligopolies), but I am sure someone a lot smarter than me can figure it out.

 

[Poser]

Not suggesting anything just stating a fact that it costs money to advertise. and some companies do it alot more than others.

And guess what? The companies who spend more on marketing, sell more products.

 

[Poser]

I would 100% suggest that, Look at Arizona Ice Tea, they have yet to push one single and and i bet you 99% of adults in our country know them, and their Can of 99 cent ice tea hasnt risen in price, well ever.

Does anyone in our country not know about Coke? or Chevy or Ford? I dont know a single person who has bought a high dollar item because of an Ad, when its time to buy a new "blank" most people jump online look up what they want and buy it.

OK you could make the arguement for low dollar items needing ads. *sees ad for Beer* man I do want a beer.....

Same with hunting gear, we all watch hunting shows and yes the fan boys who watch (insert man crush here) and see how he is wearing Sitka no wonder he shoots all these animals i better buy it too, but a majority of us go online talk to other people using the gear and find out what works best over all. I know for a fact that Sitka has lost WAAAY more money mailing me dozens of flyers then they ever made off of me buying my wife that $20 Headband 3 years ago....

Edit* Maybe Im just Jaded and just hate ads I get that

I don’t think you fully understand the scope of modern marketing. Effective marketing has the average consumer unaware that they have been marketed to. Even the shelf placement of AZ Ice tea is marketing. You going to tell me that they don’t have a website? A website is a marketing tool. And I bet you if I visit to their website right now, I’ll get retargeting Ads on all of my devices and across social media platforms including Tapatalk while I’m looking at Rokslide.

 

[USMC-40]

The paperwork and regulations.. Out of curiosity... How much is state vs fed?

Most of the paperwork/regulations in my business is state, but there are some fed requirements/agencies that enforce certain aspects. At the state level, its all reactive - I.E. someone gets sued and as a result there is a new form of 'compliance' that is mandated. For full disclosure, I am a conservative, but I have seen less government regulations/involvement during the last 4 years than I have seen in my business career (which started in 2011).

 

[Dos Perros]

If you buy sh*t from China you are only subsidizing war waged against you, your family, and your countrymen. I did it before but I won't do it again. They don't make anything you NEED. I know, I have a house full of cheap Chinese sh*t. Grandparents are told not to buy the kids gifts from China. If they do they will be respectfully returned. This was hard at first but they learn. I prioritize buying made in America, but I do think it's okay to buy from our allies, all the way down the list to Taiwan even. I can afford paying the price premium by having less sh*t. It turns out I/you don't need all that sh*t. Tags, gas, good gear that lasts, that's what you need.

 

[Matt W.]

Most of the paperwork/regulations in my business is state, but there are some fed requirements/agencies that enforce certain aspects. At the state level, its all reactive - I.E. someone gets sued and as a result there is a new form of 'compliance' that is mandated. For full disclosure, I am a conservative, but I have seen less government regulations/involvement during the last 4 years than I have seen in my business career (which started in 2011).

Thanks for the insight. I'm not in the Brad Little fan club, but appreciate this effort.

Idaho becomes least regulated state in the U.S.

 

[TomJoad]

Its not a level playing field. To run a business in the US is to deal with an amount of paperwork BS that is hard to fathom. Since most have never run a business, its blind to them. That is why the reduction in regulatory BS and reduced taxes was so well received before the COVID attack on us. Its no mystery. Level the playing field and US companies will compete with anyone.

And yes, I'll pay more for quailty US made products as well.

Need to admit that these kinds of general statements bug me. Paperwork compared to what? Making in the EU and selling in the EU? Making in China and selling in China? Importing from anywhere abroad into the US? I can tell you our company deals with far less "paperwork" making in the US vs. importing. Importing is a PIA and can be super expensive depending on how you are doing it, where your goods are coming from and what HTS codes they fall into. There are regulations nearly everywhere for manufacturing at least anywhere with good infrastructure and quality. Regulations in China are off the charts and compliance for some factories can be a real challenge. These regs are there for a reason.... anyone spent time over there and paid attention to the air quality? Its been insane over the years due to unregulated factory and vehicle emissions. It looks like Ft Collins looked like driving through last weekend with the Cameron Peak fire... on a daily basis. They are cleaning up their act and for good reason it's deeply impacted the health of their citizens. Personally I don't want to see that in the US, I'll take the regs. I'd rather not have to wear a mask after the pandemic.

Back to my earlier post you guys need to be prepared to fork over a lot more money to stay here in softgoods... not 25% more but more than 2x more. And you might lose some quality and or feature on a material level. The infrastructure just isn't here. That didn't start anytime recently, it starting in the 80s with slow closure of the textile industry in the south.

 

[Middleofnowhere]

I’m an American and a Veteran. I have grandkids that are of and coming of military age. I will do everything in my power to keep from enriching Communist China. I am willing and have paid whatever it takes to buy American made products when possible. I will always choose any other country as a source before China if possible. I do not want to see my grandchildren involved in a war with a rich industrial power like China.

As a hobby and with buddies, I have been involved in metal fabrication since the early 80’s. We used to be able to buy quality American made steel at reasonable cost. Over the years, we watched cheap China steel get dumped on America. American steel manufacturers went out of business. Then the prices started to rise to a point where our fabrication became very expensive. The Chinese gov’t has been waging economic warfare on the USA for decades. Buying cheap goods now will hurt you later. China aims to monopolize everything.

 

[rustyN]

I'll gladly pay a lot more for USA made goods that are High Quality.

I recently spent about $270 on a very nice, 100% made in the USA backpack (you know, the kind I take my lunch and laptop to work in). It's incredibly well built, and very comfortable. That isn't to say a pack 1/3 the price wouldn't handle the job just fine, but I wanted USA made AND high quality.

That isn't to say you can't get quality gear from elsewhere, because you can. I just prefer to keep my money here and support small business owners like myself and per my example above, am very willing to pay a premium.

 

[KNASH]

In the '80s I worked for a large textile corporation that ran a "Made in America" campaign. This was the beginning of the globalization of manufacturing. Finished garments made from our intermediate goods had hang tags in the stores that proudly stated (in red/white/blue) that these products were US made. We also made a strong push toward factory automation to eliminate the labor wage/standard of living imbalance btw US and competing nations. Neither worked. We learned 2 things; 1) US consumers were price focused, with minimal nation loyalty 2) US labor cost was embedded in every budget line item, from energy to supplies to raw materials. For critical military supporting goods (i.e. steel), we must maintain our national capacity. For consumer goods (i.e. clothing), we continue with competitive disadvantage due to our higher standard of living. Buying "Made in US" is a noble but minority pursuit.

 

[MichaelO]

I'm sorry but any claims that you have to outsource to keep your margins up Is a load of bull. They rip entrepreneurs apart on Shark Tank who want to make their products here for a 20-30% profit.

"why not outsource and triple that?"
-mr.wonderful probably

 

[Deplorable77]

Just out of curiosity, am I crazy for thinking that 1018 has dramatically changed in the last 10-12 years. I feel like its almost rebar quality. Cuts,grinds,and welds completely different than it used too. No tin hat here, just wondering if other hobbyists feel the same.

I’m an American and a Veteran. I have grandkids that are of and coming of military age. I will do everything in my power to keep from enriching Communist China. I am willing and have paid whatever it takes to buy American made products when possible. I will always choose any other country as a source before China if possible. I do not want to see my grandchildren involved in a war with a rich industrial power like China.

As a hobby and with buddies, I have been involved in metal fabrication since the early 80’s. We used to be able to buy quality American made steel at reasonable cost. Over the years, we watched cheap China steel get dumped on America. American steel manufacturers went out of business. Then the prices started to rise to a point where our fabrication became very expensive. The Chinese gov’t has been waging economic warfare on the USA for decades. Buying cheap goods now will hurt you later. China aims to monopolize everything.

 

[Dust Rider]

I do and will always pay more for good local made American products if they are high quality with great customer service. I will also purchase German and Austrian optics due to the quality and good customer service.

 

[Cameron.25]

I saw the below post by Joe Piedemont on LinkedIn and thought it fit well with some of the conversations we have about American Made Gear. I look forward to the conversation to follow..

The key question he lays out is:
Are you willing to pay more for a domestically made product to keep jobs in your community, state, nation? How much more?
But read his full post before answering, its not a simple question.

I love the idea of American made products and keeping jobs local, but to be honest I am not sure how much more I would actually pay for two near identical products; one made local, one made "over there". It is a though provoking question I am not sure I have an answer for.. 10% more seems reasonable, I could understand a few % points over that, but much more over that..... Just not sure...

I certainly think a business needs to turn a profit, and I think the right mix of price, customer service, quality, and design will win the day.. The right "mix" is a challenge to be worked through for just about any company....

All the below is Joe's
--- --- ---
The PRICE / WAGE "SQUEEZE"
Lost in the arguments about the pandemic and the squabbles regarding the upcoming election is a quiet killer preying upon many manufacturers - it is the squeeze created by a demand for low prices and a desire for high wages.
As consumers demand lower prices for the things they want at the same time demanding an increase in the minimum wage, manufacturers may find themselves becoming "non-profit" organizations.
What can a domestic manufacturer do when faced with this situation?
Raise prices to restore margin.
Substitute materials for less expensive versions to reduce costs.
Reduce the number of SKU's produced to reduce overhead.
Convert to Automation and replace workers with machines.
Import products from overseas.
☠ Close up shop.
The open market can be a cruel task master, often culling companies for reasons just like the "Squeeze". But consumers can help the companies they depend upon by understanding that prices and wages are connected. After all, the Customer is the Boss.

What is your recommendation to remedy the "Squeeze"?
Is a company entitled to make a profit?
Are you willing to pay more for a domestically made product to keep jobs in your community, state, nation? How much more?


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I am willing to pay more for american made stuff. Plenty of companies even in the outdoor space are proving that it can be done, especially if they're selling direct to consumer or local

 

[Logestagg]

I would happily not receive any more seasonal glossy photo 30 page magazines from sitka if it helps bring the cost down. It goes straight in the trash and is a waste of money.

 

[Boarmaster]

I’m willing to pay more for domestic produces goods of the same or better quality.
Im willing to pay more for good produced in non communist countries of the same or better quality.
I am not willing to pay more for a less quality product regardless of where it is produced.
I am not interested in paying more because Im being told something is made in the USA that really is made in China and then assembled or boxed in The USA.