Am I the only one?

[AnnualRye]

I think people listen to certain podcasts by people who hunt and spend time afield behind glass way more days and weeks than the average guy like me. You hear about their successes and see their instagram page filled with trophies and think "they use alpha glass, and if I do too that could be me with all those animals." Chances are, the difference between a pair of Mavens and a pair of Swarovskis will not be the deciding factor between you punching a tag or not, for 95% of hunts. If you can afford Pures then why not? If you can't and have to settle on a pair of Mavens you'll more than likely be just fine if you dedicate yourself to hunting as hard as you should be.

 

[CoStick]

Diopter setting matters as well, if possible adjust to your own eyes to compare

 

[Formidilosus]

Formidilosus, if a person is on a forum asking about comparing binos and creating a conversation about it then I would say he wants to know what those differences are. Wether they are a functional difference to you is one thing and wether they are a functional difference to someone else is another thing.

I use alpha glass. If someone has to hang a newspaper up in low light to see a difference between glass…. That is picking flychit out of pepper, as it were. He asked what he was missing, that’s the answer- there isn’t much.

The guy is trying to get the best bang for his buck. Trying to get the best quality for the money he spends is the best functional difference for his dollar.

Swari NL Pures are not the best bang for anyone’s buck. They may be the “best”, but you are paying heavily for a very tiny fraction of improvements over others.

Comparing which bino will perform the best as it gets dark is a great functional difference for many people. You may get an extra 10 minutes of glassing late in the evening or early in the morning. In areas that get a lot of hunting pressure sometimes those nocturnal animals come out right at dark and a sub par optic sometimes will not see it.

Of course. But one doesn’t have to tripod mount binos or read fine print to see the difference, if they do, then there isn’t a functional difference between them except for the most extreme scenarios.

I cant tell you how many times I've seen people talking on these forums about getting an extra 10 or 15 minutes of glassing in the dark. Some people squeeze out every second. I love a good debate so please feel free to give opinion. Fatrascal.

They talk about it, but how much of that is legitimate, objective comparisons, and how much is confirmation bias?

I’ll give an example- Swaro 15x SLC HD’s are widely regarded as the best 15x on the market. Meopta B1 Plus are said to be really close, but not quite as good. We had three people on a mountain glassing for quite a while going back and forth between them, all three preferred the Meoptas. The only thing the Swaro had on them was the very edge clarity was slightly better, and FOV was a touch better. However in every other sense- resolution, clarity, brightness, color, etc. the Meoptas were preferred.
I have done the same thing with quite a few people that use glass, but don’t care about brands. They don’t care if it says Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, Meopta, Hendsoldt, etc etc. Almost to a man they have preferred the Meopta over the Swaro 15x’s.

People say they see lots of things, almost always because they’re “supposed” to.

 

[BBob]

I think people listen to certain podcasts by people who hunt and spend time afield behind glass way more days and weeks than the average guy like me. You hear about their successes and see their instagram page filled with trophies and think "they use alpha glass, and if I do too that could be me with all those animals." Chances are, the difference between a pair of Mavens and a pair of Swarovskis will not be the deciding factor between you punching a tag or not, for 95% of hunts. If you can afford Pures then why not? If you can't and have to settle on a pair of Mavens you'll more than likely be just fine if you dedicate yourself to hunting as hard as you should be.

Pretty much. If you are a casual hunter or come out west for a hunt here and there you just might not benefit from the expensive stuff. If though you spend hours and hours everyday, hunt after hunt then in my world and IMO top tier glass will pay off with some fantastic finds. Those finds do add up to successes over the years. I love my NL 12's but for just hanging around my neck and hand-holding I'm not convinced they are better than having my EL 10's. I bought them to pair with BTX size glass but I'm finding I never put them on a tripod when packing the big glass. I may end up selling them and recoup the $$$ for reasons stated.

I'll second the Meopta's compared to the Swaro 15's. As much as I hate to say it I think in reality you will not lose anything if you are glassing with the Meopta.

 

[smokinbobf4]

So here is another question for Formidulous and anyone else who would like to weigh in. What would be the best I could get for around a grand? More or less for that matter. Ergos and really the eye cups are not my favorite on my c.1’s. And I would like to get a new pair even if it’s the the Swaros. I debated the el also since they are cheaper but maybe I shouldn’t even spend that.


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[Blue72]

I love my maven C1 (12x42) and they perform beyond their price point. But I still definitely see advantages with better binoculars

like others said, mount them on a tripod to see the actual difference. Plus look at objects far away. Before I bought the Maven C1, I bought Nikon monarch 5 12x42’s. Which have tons of positive reviews and I was really impressed with them in general observing. But when I tried to make out a animal about 1.5-2 miles away I was having a very hard time getting a sharp image to identify. The sharper mavens allowed me to do that. But better binoculars allowed even more detail with less chromatic aberrations as well.

Finally observations skills are just as important as your glass. If your not paying attention to details you can potentially miss out on game

 

[AnnualRye]

So here is another question for Formidulous and anyone else who would like to weigh in. What would be the best I could get for around a grand? More or less for that matter. Ergos and really the eye cups are not my favorite on my c.1’s. And I would like to get a new pair even if it’s the the Swaros. I debated the el also since they are cheaper but maybe I shouldn’t even spend that.


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I'm in the same boat as you. I've had a pair of Leupold Mojave 10x42's for the past 9 years. They are serviceable, they've helped me find game and success in the field, but they are (were) relatively cheap and not good in lowlight. I've been mulling over spending about a grand on binos to compliment my Kowa spotter. I'm not spending $2,000 on alpha binos and certainly not $3,000. I just don't hunt enough in open terrain behind them all day to justify that kind of expense, and I really don't think for me I would spot that many more animals than a "cheaper" pair of binos.

I've heard a lot of rave reviews about the Maven B2's. Only downside is their size/weight, but I would primarily use off of tri-pod. I've also heard good things about the Zeiss Conquest and Meoptas in that price range. Going to try to Maven in-field demo program with the 9x45's and see what kind of difference they make compared to my Leupolds. Odds are the Mavens will be better, especially in FOV and lowlight conditions. Exponentially? Maybe so, maybe not. But for the price tag I think it'd be a worthwhile investment.

Not going to try the Swaros or Leicas. I know I won't know what I'll be missing, and at this stage in my hunting career, with that price tag, I don't really care.

 

[Formidilosus]

So here is another question for Formidulous and anyone else who would like to weigh in. What would be the best I could get for around a grand?

Top end Meoptas- Meopro Air, Meostar, etc. It isn’t just the glass, which is very, very good, it’s durability, reliability, mechanics, etc, I.E.- the overall use.

 

[CoStick]

So here is another question for Formidulous and anyone else who would like to weigh in. What would be the best I could get for around a grand? More or less for that matter. Ergos and really the eye cups are not my favorite on my c.1’s. And I would like to get a new pair even if it’s the the Swaros. I debated the el also since they are cheaper but maybe I shouldn’t even spend that.


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I have gone all around and always end up with SLC. No more searching, keeping them this time. 10x42 and also carry a light tripod cover it.

 

[fatrascal]

All are great answers and great contradictions and this is exactly what the original poster wanted. What may seem to be a small or frivolous difference to one person may be the deciding factor for another. Wether that be optical quality, weight, ergonomics. Many times in these conversations we are splitting hairs and it comes down to a person's personal preference but those split hairs sometimes cost a small amount and sometimes they cost a lot. Nevertheless this conversation has brought out every split hair and is worth the read from anybody looking to buy a pair of binos. At the end of the day the questions have all been answered. It might make things more confusing or it might help the person pick a direction. Personally I feel that "getting the best that you can afford" has always proven to be true time and time again. Wether you feel that subtle difference is worth the price is up to the buyer. We are just telling you how to find that subtle difference. Great post and great debate. Fatrascal.

 

[JohnJohnson]

The more I think about it, your comparison is akin to comparing the accuracy of two hunting rifles by shooting them both offhand at 100 yards.

 

[fatrascal]

Yes Sir, good analogy. Fatrascal.

 

[Ryan Avery]

So here is another question for Formidulous and anyone else who would like to weigh in. What would be the best I could get for around a grand? More or less for that matter. Ergos and really the eye cups are not my favorite on my c.1’s. And I would like to get a new pair even if it’s the the Swaros. I debated the el also since they are cheaper but maybe I shouldn’t even spend that.


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I would take a hard look at the Nikon HGs.

We bring our own lenses to the optics party. I don't see what you see. I would highly suggest looking through binoculars in your hunting area before you buy them.

 

[fatrascal]

Back to the debate. I may have told this story before but its been awhile. I once was hunting with a rich friend who could afford anything he wanted but could not see any difference between his binoculars and my binoculars. He had Bushnell and at the time I had first generation swaro el's. I'll admit that in the middle of the day on this particular day I could not see any difference myself at short distance. Well anyway we went hunting. It was evening and the lighting was just beginning to change. We looked over a cliff and there was a herd of 15 deer with one buck. All deer were pointing from left to right except one and that one was the buck. I could clearly see a 4 point buck but my friend could not tell he was a buck at all. It was the last day of his season and the last hour. I told him he needed to kill that buck and he kept telling me there was no buck. He pulled out his rifle which had a Leupold scope on it and could barely see antlers until the buck turned sideways and he got a good glimpse of the antlers. At that point he was in a panic to get that buck. He got him and it was his best buck ever. In the next couple of months he got a Swaro spotting scope in HD, 15x56 slc's, and 10x42 els.
Another story. I was with my buddy when he killed a bull elk. We got a couple of hind quarters off of him and draped an orange vest over the antlers. Next morning we went to the other side of the mountain and glassed him up from the bottom of the drainage with our spotting scopes. He had a Vortex and I had my Swaro. He could see orange and I could see some of the points protruding out from under the vest. He took a hard look through my spotter and decided right then and there that he was gonna get alpha glass.
I'll take newspaper reading optics any day over non newspaper reading glasses. You will see points that non newspaper reading glasses cannot see. I agree that the difference between a meopta and swarovski are gonna be much less but still ive seen conditions where seeing that 2 inch cheater and not seeing made the difference of going after a buck or not going after a buck. Splitting hairs? Well yes I am. And happy to do it. To me it makes a difference. Fatrascal.

 

[JGRaider]

If a guy can't see a big difference between a cheap Bushnell and a Swaro anything, he needs a new hobby, but that wasn't the argument. The "argument" was between $500+ and alpha glass, which I've done many, many times on tripods while hunting for big muleys. This kind of goes hand in hand with the "which $1000 bino" question as well. I've had the Conquest HD, Nikon HG, Tract Toric, Meostar HD, BX4, Razor HD, Meopro Air, and probably a couple I'm forgetting side by side with my own SLC's, EL SV's, and Geovid's. My personal choice is the Meopta stuff...Meostar HD and Air over any of the others, but the Tract Toric is a killer glass for around $600....a steal.

BTW, I use a Meostar S2 spotter to judge game, after I've found them with my binos. Works good for me.

 

[Formidilosus]

I would take a hard look at the Nikon HGs.

I always forget these. Good binos.

 

[Firehawk]

So here is another question for Formidulous and anyone else who would like to weigh in. What would be the best I could get for around a grand? More or less for that matter. Ergos and really the eye cups are not my favorite on my c.1’s. And I would like to get a new pair even if it’s the the Swaros. I debated the el also since they are cheaper but maybe I shouldn’t even spend that.


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Maven B2 and B1.2, Vortex Razor HD (for about $800 pretty regularly around her), Meopta MeoStar (sounds like the "Air" versions are awesome too), Kowa Genesis has to be considered from all the reports I read, used Leica Ultravids, SLCs, ELs, Zeiss Conquest. All of those are reportedly good and on the heels of the Alphas. Of course the Leica Ultravids, Swaro SLC/ELs are alpha, but good deals used can be found.

My B2 9x45 was a HUGE step up from the C1 in picture, fit and finish, overall package and enjoyment. It honestly wasn't even close.

The other night, I had my Swaro EL 8.5, Vortex Viper HD 8x42, buddy's 10x42 Swaro NL Pure, and a different buddy's Maven B1.2 10x42 on the tripods comparing at last light. The Vipers were outclassed right away, but they were still good enough to see what I needed to during legal shooting hours that night. The EL and NL Pure were a definite class above the Mavens, but those B1.2 were really good. For me, optically I would be happy with the Maven B1.2 However, I prefer the easiness of the view through the Swaros. Eye placement was less critical and they were sharper at longer ranges. The NL Pures were really relaxing to look through. Way easy frankly. I have seen others compare them to looking out a large very clean window. I felt the same. The FOV was noticeable and they were so easy to look through. The ELs (2014 versions) were also really easy. And easier for me to see through while handholding. But, I know I have issues with seeing all the shakiness through a 10x or higher bino while handholding. Not as noticeable for me on the 8x or 8.5x. THAT is a ME issue. Most don't complain of that problem, even amongst my group of friends. But it is a real difference for me.

Good luck in your decision. But as others have said, what matters to you, may not matter to another and vice versa. That is why there are so many different optics and why there are so many varying opinions.

 

[fatrascal]

JGRaider, was not trying to put Meopta in a bad light as I actually love Meopta and used to have a Meopta made Cabela Euros about 10 years ago. Im sure they are even better now. And yes I agree that Bushnell is not even in the same universe as swarovski, meopta, leica, kowa and many other choices. But this is a story that is repeated over and over with multiple brands being compared. I just happen to owne swaro which seems to be the optic most compared.
What I'm trying to say is that reading a newspaper with an optic at multiple yardage is a great test comparison. Why? Because if you can see a difference between two optics at 100 yards then you will see more of a difference at 200 and again more at a distance at 300. The further out you go the more the difference shows up. Which matters in the world of hunting. Fatrascal.

 

[JGRaider]

No problem with me fat, thanks!

 

[tdhanses]

I'm in the same boat as you. I've had a pair of Leupold Mojave 10x42's for the past 9 years. They are serviceable, they've helped me find game and success in the field, but they are (were) relatively cheap and not good in lowlight. I've been mulling over spending about a grand on binos to compliment my Kowa spotter. I'm not spending $2,000 on alpha binos and certainly not $3,000. I just don't hunt enough in open terrain behind them all day to justify that kind of expense, and I really don't think for me I would spot that many more animals than a "cheaper" pair of binos.

I've heard a lot of rave reviews about the Maven B2's. Only downside is their size/weight, but I would primarily use off of tri-pod. I've also heard good things about the Zeiss Conquest and Meoptas in that price range. Going to try to Maven in-field demo program with the 9x45's and see what kind of difference they make compared to my Leupolds. Odds are the Mavens will be better, especially in FOV and lowlight conditions. Exponentially? Maybe so, maybe not. But for the price tag I think it'd be a worthwhile investment.

Not going to try the Swaros or Leicas. I know I won't know what I'll be missing, and at this stage in my hunting career, with that price tag, I don't really care.

Checkout the Kowa Genesis binos, they supposedly are very good.