Am I a jerk? (Read before voting)

[JZee]

So here's the deal last year was my son's first year to be able to shoot a deer, this year is his second year and he's pumped.

However my mother and father think I am a monster. . . All because I have a couple of rules for him.

Rule #1 no small mulie bucks (our mulie population is low and Forky's are dumber than a box of rocks, let them grow)

#2 until your old enough to sit alone Dad (me) is shooting anything Bigger than what I already have at home!

That's it, those are the only rules. My son is perfectly ok with this because he knows most years I'm not shooting a deer and he's going to get to shoot two bucks and a few does. He also knows in a few more years he will sit by himself and shoot whatever he wants. Basically I don't want to spoil the poor kid if some monster walks out, and I've put in my time and all the work for these spots I deserve a little something right? So let me have it am I jerk if I shoot a trophy buck in front of my kid when he's holding a tag?

For reference his white tail range is doe to about 150 inch deer and his mulie range is mature buck up to 170inch class.

I don’t let my son shoot tiny deer either. Doesn’t need to be anything huge, but I shoot for 3 years old or better. If we have a really good deer in range and the situation is good, I’d rather have my son shoot it than shoot myself. That being said, if the deer is on the move and it will be a tough situation he’s getting hip checked. I want him to have memories but I’m not letting a giant walk over the ridge if he can find it in the scope.

 

[Hondo]

I think you are a good dad for taking your son hunting and teaching him to be a proficient and ethical hunter by establishing rules. I think the rule not allowing him to shoot a huge buck has no place in those rules.

 

[Bowhunting WI]

I'll admit, when I first read your post, I thought total jerk move as a parent. As I've read your reactions and responses to all the comments in this thread, I don't see it that way anymore. You seem like a great guy and father that I'd share hunting camp with.

I'll share two personal stories:
I've hunted with my dad since I was old enough to walk. When I was old enough to legally hunt (10) he took me to his best stand and I was given his 30-06 to use. He had one rule (outside of gun safety obviously) and that was I had to shoot a buck only, no does could be killed. We sat in that box blind from sun up till sun down on opening day of WI's gun deer season and never saw a deer. The next day we sat in that same stand from sun up until about a half hour before dark, when 4 does made their way toward us. He asked me if I wanted to shoot a doe and I most certainly did after sitting there freezing for the last 2 days. When it came down to it, he broke his own rule and allowed me to shoot my first deer.....a big old fat WI doe. It's a memory that neither of us will ever forget. (It's also the only doe I've ever shot in WI)

My son (who's 16) has hunted with me, also since he was old enough to walk. He's killed several whitetails with his rifle, and one with his bow and I've been at his side for all of them. This past September, I got to take my son along on his first western elk hunting trip. My dad and I were out there for nearly 3 weeks elk hunting, and my son got to tag along for the first 10 days. (His mom would only let him miss 1 week of school) During those 10 days I carried my bow, but I was there only to guide him. I don't care how big the bull would have been that stepped out in front of us, he was the shooter. He had several opportunities at cows that he passed up (his choice not mine) in hopes for getting a shot at a bull, but unfortunately he came home empty handed.
One morning we located a small herd of 5 elk, 4 cows and a decent 6 point heading up a drainage. My son and I moved to stalk up above them, my dad and brother moved down below them. As we were slowing moving in, the elk switched course and started back down the valley and my son says, "I hope they don't get a shot." I said, what did you just say?!?!?!?!..... and he repeated his selfish statement. We stopped right there and had a good 5 minute heart to heart conversation about what exactly it was we were doing out there. Yes we all want to kill an animal when we've put so much time/money/energy into a hunt, but at the end of the day, success is something we all share as a group.....not just as an individual.

Hunting is about more than the kill. It's about the experiences and the memories. Enjoy the time in the field with your son, and best of luck to both of you this fall!

-BHWI

 

[Trial153]

I wouldn’t even think about shooting a buck while my son was sitting there with an empty tag. No problem with not shooting a small buck however on the upper limit….I hope the buck of a freaking life time steps out in front of him.
I would go on to say that nothing is guaranteed or promised in life, you been lucky enough to experience all that goes into killing a buck, experiencing the work, the satisfaction of it making it to your families table, all the fond memories it provided in the Days and years after. Your son hasn’t had that yet and there is no promise or guarantees that he will. Bad shit happens every freaking minute to great people. No way I take a chance of him missing all that so I can kill a my “biggest ever “

 

[String&stick]

I'll admit, when I first read your post, I thought total jerk move as a parent. As I've read your reactions and responses to all the comments in this thread, I don't see it that way anymore. You seem like a great guy and father that I'd share hunting camp with.

I'll share two personal stories:
I've hunted with my dad since I was old enough to walk. When I was old enough to legally hunt (10) he took me to his best stand and I was given his 30-06 to use. He had one rule (outside of gun safety obviously) and that was I had to shoot a buck only, no does could be killed. We sat in that box blind from sun up till sun down on opening day of WI's gun deer season and never saw a deer. The next day we sat in that same stand from sun up until about a half hour before dark, when 4 does made their way toward us. He asked me if I wanted to shoot a doe and I most certainly did after sitting there freezing for the last 2 days. When it came down to it, he broke his own rule and allowed me to shoot my first deer.....a big old fat WI doe. It's a memory that neither of us will ever forget. (It's also the only doe I've ever shot in WI)

My son (who's 16) has hunted with me, also since he was old enough to walk. He's killed several whitetails with his rifle, and one with his bow and I've been at his side for all of them. This past September, I got to take my son along on his first western elk hunting trip. My dad and I were out there for nearly 3 weeks elk hunting, and my son got to tag along for the first 10 days. (His mom would only let him miss 1 week of school) During those 10 days I carried my bow, but I was there only to guide him. I don't care how big the bull would have been that stepped out in front of us, he was the shooter. He had several opportunities at cows that he passed up (his choice not mine) in hopes for getting a shot at a bull, but unfortunately he came home empty handed.
One morning we located a small herd of 5 elk, 4 cows and a decent 6 point heading up a drainage. My son and I moved to stalk up above them, my dad and brother moved down below them. As we were slowing moving in, the elk switched course and started back down the valley and my son says, "I hope they don't get a shot." I said, what did you just say?!?!?!?!..... and he repeated his selfish statement. We stopped right there and had a good 5 minute heart to heart conversation about what exactly it was we were doing out there. Yes we all want to kill an animal when we've put so much time/money/energy into a hunt, but at the end of the day, success is something we all share as a group.....not just as an individual.

Hunting is about more than the kill. It's about the experiences and the memories. Enjoy the time in the field with your son, and best of luck to both of you this fall!

-BHWI

Appreciate you taking the time to read through things. I definitely could have worded it better. I think part of it is wanting him to work and earn it, and part of it is wanting to make sure he is invested in the time and effort and work and not just, oh look a giant that was easy!!!

As I've said I don't know what I'd do If presented with the situation but after reading through many comments and think I'm probably leaning towards allowing him to take the shot if it is in his MER and if it's outside of his I'll take it. It's never been a "steal the glory" thing! My son will also be the only shooter in some situation and he will have to sit back and let his younger siblings take their turns other times.

I love this sight and appreciate your response and personal experiences! Like I've said in other post, positive or negative I truly appreciate those that put thought into their responses.

Hope your hunting seasons continue to go well this year!

 

[String&stick]

I wouldn’t even think about shooting a buck while my son was sitting there with an empty tag. No problem with not shooting a small buck however on the upper limit….I hope the buck of a freaking life time steps out in front of him.
I would go on to say that nothing is guaranteed or promised in life, you been lucky enough to experience all that goes into killing a buck, experiencing the work, the satisfaction of it making it to your families table, all the fond memories it provided in the Days and years after. Your son hasn’t had that yet and there is no promise or guarantees that he will. Bad shit happens every freaking minute to great people. No way I take a chance of him missing all that so I can kill a my “biggest ever “

Thanks for responding Trail and I hear ya with all your saying.

 

[RS3579]

I voted yes!

 

[Bulldawg]

I don't know if I could call you a jerk, but you're somewhere between a jerk and a really bad father.

With biologist background I guess you've determined that you know more than the state biologist and that the deer population in your area wouldn't be able to sustain anymore if a 10 year old takes a spike.

And you seem so insecure in yourself that you have to take that big buck away from your son in order show off the buddies the giant buck. That be a cool story, "Yeah my boy was lined up for a shot but when this big boy stepped out, I said son, step aside this is a mans buck you haven't 'earned' this one yet"

Very selfish thinking and I would get it if it was a buddy or stranger, but this is your son and if that's how you would act on something a deer hunt then I hate to see how you act the rest of the time.

 

[String&stick]

I don't know if I could call you a jerk, but you're somewhere between a jerk and a really bad father.

With biologist background I guess you've determined that you know more than the state biologist and that the deer population in your area wouldn't be able to sustain anymore if a 10 year old takes a spike.

And you seem so insecure in yourself that you have to take that big buck away from your son in order show off the buddies the giant buck. That be a cool story, "Yeah my boy was lined up for a shot but when this big boy stepped out, I said son, step aside this is a mans buck you haven't 'earned' this one yet"

Very selfish thinking and I would get it if it was a buddy or stranger, but this is your son and if that's how you would act on something a deer hunt then I hate to see how you act the rest of the time.

100% entitled to your opinion and hey I asked for it! Appreciate your response but wanted to cover a couple things.

#1. As for shooting small bucks. If you read through things he can shoot any small whitetail he wants, the restriction comes on the mule deer as their population is lower. This is a restriction we have placed across several thousand acres involving a few neighbors. We want to get mule deer mature so they have had a couple of breeding cycles. We also don't shoot any mule deer does, again to try to boost the population.

#2. As for my biology degree, I don't have one, but I have had discussions with many that do, even those in our. Game and parks, and they agree with what we are doing. Unfortunately Nebraska is an opportunity state. The only thing we manage for is the opportunity to hunt deer. We have a pool of tags, then landowner tags that don't really effect that pool and are hard to calculate usage, and then we have unlimited statewide whitetail tags. Herd health is not a large priority for our state.

3. As for being between a "jerk and a really bad father" i know it's lengthy but I'd ask you to read through these 11 pages and get a feel for things (you don't know me so don't waste your time if you don't want to). I'm not trying to steal my kids childhood, and I'm not looking to take the Glory and gloat. I'm looking to keep my son engaged and don't/didn't want him to take a monster and then not see another deer that size for a few years and lose interest! 100% on my for posting offhand and not thinking how it came across, but I think if you read through you will see that.

Lastly, I'm not saying I could be wrong, part of doing the poll was to have thoughts from other hunters with kids. . . So far my approval is below congress, I'll take that into consideration.

Saturday is opening day, I'll be sure to report back to let folks know how my son does!

 

[MallardSX2]

Yes, You are in fact a selfish jerk and IMHO people like you represent most of that is wrong with this sport.

This story reminds me of when my buddy was 12 years old and a huge buck came through the woods and he lifted his gun to shoot the deer and his grandfather finally saw the size of the buck and pushed him out of the way so he could shoot the buck because it was the biggest one he had ever seen...lol My buddy never hunted with his Grandfather again after that day.

Also, his grandfather missed the buck and it ran away never to be seen again. KARMA....lol

 

[TxxAgg]

Sigh...reading comprehension is tough.

 

[bsnedeker]

I’ll make a potentially controversial comment here that most probably won’t agree with: if letting your kid do something gives you greater enjoyment than doing it yourself, letting them do so was motivated by your own selfishness.

Being selfish means acting in your own interest first, not second. Therefore, if you benefit more by letting the kid kill the buck, that’s selfishness. It’s only when you feel you are giving something up that you are acting with selflessness or true altruism.

Sorry, but this is nonsense. I've heard this argument before and it boils down to this: Everything everyone ever does is selfish. There is no act that could possibly live up to the standard you are setting here which is: In order to not be selfish you must not get ANYTHING from the act.

If you do something nice for someone you feel good about it..so that makes doing nice things for someone selfish. If you DIE in order to protect someone else you now have people thinking you are a hero and that is your legacy so even that is selfish.

So what are we left with? We have two options: 1. Every act IS selfish, no matter how it affects other people...ok fine, you can live your life thinking this if you want to, seems pretty pessimistic to me. Or 2. Your definition of "selfish" is far too broad and you should change it.

 

[ODB]

Sorry, but this is nonsense. I've heard this argument before and it boils down to this: Everything everyone ever does is selfish. There is no act that could possibly live up to the standard you are setting here which is: In order to not be selfish you must not get ANYTHING from the act.

If you do something nice for someone you feel good about it..so that makes doing nice things for someone selfish. If you DIE in order to protect someone else you now have people thinking you are a hero and that is your legacy so even that is selfish.

So what are we left with? We have two options: 1. Every act IS selfish, no matter how it affects other people...ok fine, you can live your life thinking this if you want to, seems pretty pessimistic to me. Or 2. Your definition of "selfish" is far too broad and you should change it.

if the primary motivation is in YOUR best interest, it is a selfish motivation.

you may not like it, or may not like the use of the word selfish, but that’s what it is. I never said selfish motivations are bad - this is apparently your take on the word. Selfish doesn’t have to be cynical - don’t confuse the two.

 

[hunt1up]

My 10 year old daughter and 8 year old son just started hunting. Last year my daughter shot a forky whitetail and she and myself were so proud you would have thought it was a booner. I can see passing dink mulies if the population sucks, but I’d feel like a real turd shooting a big deer with my kid sitting next to me with their own tag and gun.

 

[bsnedeker]

if the primary motivation is in YOUR best interest, it is a selfish motivation.

you may not like it, or may not like the use of the word selfish, but that’s what it is. I never said selfish motivations are bad - this is apparently your take on the word. Selfish doesn’t have to be cynical - don’t confuse the two.

Ok, so now you are changing the terms. In your original post you said "if letting your kid do something gives you greater enjoyment than doing it yourself" then you are selfish.

NOW you have moved the goalposts and are saying that only if you PRIMARY reason is your feeling then that is selfish. I hope you understand those are two fundamentally different things.

If I'm letting my kid shoot a deer and it makes me happier to see them shoot it than to shoot it myself, but my primary reason is that I want him/her to have the same feelings and excitement as I had any time I have taken a nice animal then I am not selfish by your second definition, but I am selfish by your first.

As far as your point about "well, I never said being selfish was BAD, that's on you!"...come on brother. Show me one example where someone has ever called someone else selfish and meant it as a compliment.

 

[RockinRam96]

I don’t disagree with this what so ever. Young people need to understand patience. In this instance gratification life style we live, hunting is anything but that. Learn patience. Learn to appreciate the woods and the animal you’re hunting. When the time comes to take a nice animal, it taste that much sweeter!


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[260madman]

I’ve been holding off on this thread and haven’t read everything but enough to shake my head. I’d let my daughter shoot the big Muley if that’s what was in front of us.

The only stipulation we have with her is that when given the okay on a buck to shoot that it must be still. She was told that this year‘s buck should be bigger than last years because there’s enough around that we can be picky if they cooperate. How much bigger we didn’t say, just the next year older will do. We want her to have fun and she does. Luckily she got her “big one” on opening morning last year by 7am. Makes it easier than hunting a week freezing for buck tag soup. She’s happy shooting a doe too. She has 4 tags for them this year.

ETA: In the heat of the moment I’ll probably get overly excited for her and tell her to shoot one as big as last year to make her happy and excited for next year. She already picks out the spots for the blinds and tells me which way the deer will come in.

 

[BCsteve]

I’ll make a potentially controversial comment here that most probably won’t agree with: if letting your kid do something gives you greater enjoyment than doing it yourself, letting them do so was motivated by your own selfishness.

Being selfish means acting in your own interest first, not second. Therefore, if you benefit more by letting the kid kill the buck, that’s selfishness. It’s only when you feel you are giving something up that you are acting with selflessness or true altruism.

What?!
If I enjoy seeing my kids succeed I’m being selfish?!

 

[Themic86]

Maybe a paper rock scissors for #2 to keep it interesting and make him win 2 of the three to shoot it.


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[ppt2211]

Voted yes!