All I’m reading are Elk Numbers Down, Colorado

[orionthehunter1]

Sure. But the same could be said for any articles OP has read about elk decline, no? If CPW’s estimates are suspect, seems to me anything could be suspect.

If CPW is admitting to a drop then it must be significant. Look how out of control bear numbers got before they admitted to that.

 

[Researcher]

I wonder how many of the reports hunters give are honest. I always do but I always hear stories of people lying and saying they werent sucessful so their respective department of wildlife doesnt reduce tags. Ive also heard people lie to try and keep their “honey holes” a secrete.

 

[LandYacht]

How do you figure they don't know how many people are hunting an OTC unit. At best they survey 30% of tag holders so they are guessing on 70% of their hunter data.

I think you just answered your own question.
At least now they will know the maximum number of legal hunters.

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[cnelk]

At least now they will know the maximum number of 'harvest survey takers'.

Fixed it for ya

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

It’s very apparent from many of your other posts you have a personal issue with non residents. That’s totally ok, your right to do so. One might remember that as a whole we are a minority across the country. Take Colorado in 2019, a simply google search (non scientific) shows 38 mil of federal/state grant and loans that funded 16% of CPW budget. 49 other NR states pay taxes to help manage those lands. Regardless of a persons own views of your animals, my animals, our animals (that has been absolutely beat to death), the fact does remain that if you alienate NR to the degree you want the hunting heritage will decline. That is a slippery slope when it comes to the willingness of NR’s to continue giving financial support. Once that goes politicians will start the privatization of federal lands. Why would I keep paying taxes for something that I rarely if ever get to use. To be clear I hope that day never comes. But you might want to be careful what your asking for, bc you just might get it.


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I believe all cnElk is saying is that tags and tag allocation should tip scales towards residents. Which is absolutely fair. Residents stay in the state year round and should get some form of benefit for that.

I’m not a resident in Colorado anymore, however I support the tags benefitting the resident over the non ten fold.

I also think there is something to be said about why there are underlying issues with non residents in particular western states and why we as in non residents get bad names in states.

I’ve seen myself first hand the 10% we’ll say of ‘out of towners’ that show up places that are near to people’s hearts and treat the place and people with 0 respect. As a local that alone could sway anyone to want to limit non resident tags. I don’t blame them one bit, always that one guy that ruins it for everyone.

Does that mean non Res shouldn’t get tags, not at all, it’s just an unfortunate outcome.

 

[MOSO 300]

^^^ Does your state favor Residents over NonRes? I bet it does

Actually my state is super NR friendly, no limits on nonresident tags, tag cost very low, total resident and NR tag sales account for less than 8% of their entire budget. And we have a boat load of NR hunters in each year. We passed a 1/8 percent sales tax many years ago and that has nearly funded our conservation department fully. 3 states that border us are 3 to 4 times the cost for NR while being draw only. Non residents don’t fund our hunting privileges, we do, but they do help our economy. If you want to charge me tons extra to use your private ground then Ok, I have the choice to pay to play or not. But let’s say you and I had a hunting lease together. You pay 13-14 times the cost as I do. I have nearly guaranteed access but you have limited if any access. I highly doubt you stay in that lease long. In fact I bet it wouldn’t take long before you got upset and want some money back. All I’m trying to say is we have enough battles ahead of us to fight as a collective group than to create a divide within. At some point we will have to look past the view of “me” and be more concerned about the “we” if we are going keep public hunting access public. Just food for thought.


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[BeastOfTheTrees]

Sure. But the same could be said for any articles OP has read about elk decline, no? If CPW’s estimates are suspect, seems to me anything could be suspect.

Definitely could be, I got my info from where I usually get it on this website. That’s why I made a thread to learn more.

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

Your analogy isn’t applicable.

Keep collecting data if you wish, but limiting the number of hunters is a tangible statistic. It isn’t the only tool, nor should it be the only one applied. A hunter survey is only as accurate as the information supplied by hunters. Even if it is required you still have the potential for junk in resulting in junk coming out.

They’ve got enough data to limit the number of hunters. Now they will be able to determine one of the variables that until now wasn’t possible.

Sadly we are the variable that can be measured.

A more apt analogy would be your car tire losing air. You know where one of those holes that the air is escaping from, so you control that and then measure the level of air in your tire and see what has happened.

You can keep measuring the air escaping from the tire if you want, but soon you won’t have anymore air as you continually try to catch the escaping air.




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Enjoyed that analogy, well put.

 

[MOSO 300]

And yes I hunt with NR’s ever year in multiple seasons. It’s a heritage and lifestyle i enjoy sharing.


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[orionthehunter1]

I think you just answered your own question.
At least now they will know the maximum number of legal hunters.

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Wrong they have no idea how many guys actually hunt in an OTC unit therefore how are they going to know if their tag numbers are really a reduction?

 

[LandYacht]

Wrong they have no idea how many guys actually hunt in an OTC unit therefore how are they going to know if their tag numbers are really a reduction?

That is mostly true. Now they have a number to start with if you are operating under the assumption that they have not even the faintest clue of how many people hunted a unit. I would venture to guess they had at least a concept of rough numbers even if there is a large margin of error.


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[Southforkguy]

i wouldnt mind seeing a draw system for the current otc rifle seasons

 

[luckydraw2014]

It’s very apparent from many of your other posts you have a personal issue with non residents. That’s totally ok, your right to do so. One might remember that as a whole we are a minority across the country. Take Colorado in 2019, a simply google search (non scientific) shows 38 mil of federal/state grant and loans that funded 16% of CPW budget. 49 other NR states pay taxes to help manage those lands. Regardless of a persons own views of your animals, my animals, our animals (that has been absolutely beat to death), the fact does remain that if you alienate NR to the degree you want the hunting heritage will decline. That is a slippery slope when it comes to the willingness of NR’s to continue giving financial support. Once that goes politicians will start the privatization of federal lands. Why would I keep paying taxes for something that I rarely if ever get to use. To be clear I hope that day never comes. But you might want to be careful what your asking for, bc you just might get it.


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I completely agree with your sentiment, those fortunate enough to live in western states still relay on tax dollars from non residents. States that view NR as a nuisance dont deserve our money.....and as Randy says its our land.

I hunted on a large farm in IL and the landowner said it best when he said these animals belong to mother nature and dont become my property when they cross the fence line.

 

[bz_711]

My .02 cents:
-Mandatory harvest reporting, with today's technology it would probably be cheaper than current method.
-All units moved to draw to manage more correctly, if a particular unit has too high population and not enough applying open it up for OTC...the last minute out of staters will fill it up in no time.
-For 2 years make Bear and Lion tags $10 for R and NR ( I still believe booming predator numbers are the biggest piece of this puzzle)...or open back up Spring Bear/Predator season.

At least it's a hot topic and hopefully the next few years some good things are done to protect the elk herds long term for all to enjoy.

 

[Shrek]

The elk are going to crash no matter what licensing and surveys are done. Lion , wolf , and bear numbers are exploding and restrictions on hunting them makes it worse. It’s really just the lions and bears combined with habitat loss that’s driving elk and deer numbers for now but as wolves move in the collapse will follow. Everything will be draw shortly. A few bad winters and a house on every acre of winter range is another devastating blow. The outlook is grim. As the greenies take over the game management which they’re doing rapidly the hunters will be squeezed out. Colorado will become a predator pit under the balance of nature BS. That’s the 30,000’ view of the situation.

 

[cnelk]

I completely agree with your sentiment, those fortunate enough to live in western states still relay on tax dollars from non residents.

Enlighten us how NonRes tax dollars help the declining elk herd.

 

[luckydraw2014]

Enlighten us how NonRes tax dollars help the declining elk herd.

Last I checked lots of money goes into conservation efforts from both R and NR. I am a RMEF member and when I send in money it makes it help with habitat I will probably never see in my life. We have the same issue in IL with whitetail, too many unlimited tags regardless of residency. Introducing wolves in these states is not going to help. They introduces wolfs in the UP and the deer population has been destroyed and we are starting to see them in lower Wisconsin.

 

[chindits]

I don’t get everyone’s infatuation with harvest numbers. All that tells you is the number of animals harvested but not the number that survived the winter and that is what tag numbers should be based on. Just look at how skewed the numbers would be if you compared the harvest last fall with the drought year before and made assumptions on herd size. Maybe in the tropics of New Mexico harvest numbers indicate herd size the following spring, but until winter is over I wouldn’t make any assumptions in Colorado.

 

[orionthehunter1]

It's also hard to manage a herd when you don't know how many are getting taken year to year

 

[sneaky]

It’s very apparent from many of your other posts you have a personal issue with non residents. That’s totally ok, your right to do so. One might remember that as a whole we are a minority across the country. Take Colorado in 2019, a simply google search (non scientific) shows 38 mil of federal/state grant and loans that funded 16% of CPW budget. 49 other NR states pay taxes to help manage those lands. Regardless of a persons own views of your animals, my animals, our animals (that has been absolutely beat to death), the fact does remain that if you alienate NR to the degree you want the hunting heritage will decline. That is a slippery slope when it comes to the willingness of NR’s to continue giving financial support. Once that goes politicians will start the privatization of federal lands. Why would I keep paying taxes for something that I rarely if ever get to use. To be clear I hope that day never comes. But you might want to be careful what your asking for, bc you just might get it.


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Why would you keep paying taxes for something that you may never get to use? Oh,I don't know, because the government says you will? Stop paying taxes and see how long they ignore you. Do you complain the same way to your insurance agent? Why pay for something you may never get to use, right? Colorado is heading down a slippery slope with wildlife management and land use, hunters are a very small part of that equation.

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