Alec Baldwin shooting

[GSPHUNTER]

How do you make that work on a movie set where you are going to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger to film a gunfight? Answer, you don't, a gun on a film set as a prop is treated differently.

Quick point, a movie doesn't have "a producer." A movie has all kinda of producers. EPs are typically people who funded it, gave some consideration (paid for ads, let you use their farm, an actor or director who reduced their fee for a small budget film). The line producer is the one that handles day to day and hiring/firing. There's also production staff who handle day to day and have power. Baldwin was not it in charge of anything, as much as people really want to see him at fault. It's like blaming James Hetfield if someone gets hurt by pyrotechnics as a Metallica show.

Next up, read any of the discussions with propmaster (actual propmasters) and there's a common theme. No set armorer is having the actor check the gun. Some might allow or require an actor to be part of the check, but the person responsible for checking equipment is the armorer and typically the AD. I was reading a writeup from an IATSE armorer who mentioned that he would take a gun back and recheck it I'd an actor decided to open the cylinder/slide/remove a magazine without being told to, same as a rigger would recheck rigging if an actor started messing with it and a technician would recheck pyrotechnics if an actor decided to check the fuse. That's because the actor is not trained to handle it, doesn't know what power blank is being loaded (if any) until they're told by the armorer.

If I go rappelling I'm responsible for checking my my own gear, but on a film set that goes to the AD, the stunt coordinator and the riggers. I am responsible for my own car, but on a film set the actors aren't checking the brakes and oil on the car, that's the stunt coordinator's job. Same principle applies throughout, because when you start doing something that is more dangerous than driving to work or shooting on a one-way range, you have to observe a different set of safety protocols.

Alex Baldwin, I promise you, doesn't know the difference between a film dummy (inert primer, no powder), a blank, and a live round. Requiring every actor to check a prop gun would result in more NDs from people not super familiar with their operation.

So, listen to what the expert armorers from IATSE are saying. The fault lies with the AD, the armorer, maybe the director and the line producer as well for allowing the set to operate in an unsafe manner. The people who's job it was to ensure things were operating safely didn't do that, but if I pick my car up from the mechanic and it turns out the brake rotors weren't reinstalled, it's not going to be my fault when I rear-end someone, it's gonna be the mechanic who was paid to service my brakes.

How do you make that work on a movie set where you are going to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger to film a gunfight? Answer, you don't, a gun on a film set as a prop is treated differently.

Quick point, a movie doesn't have "a producer." A movie has all kinda of producers. EPs are typically people who funded it, gave some consideration (paid for ads, let you use their farm, an actor or director who reduced their fee for a small budget film). The line producer is the one that handles day to day and hiring/firing. There's also production staff who handle day to day and have power. Baldwin was not it in charge of anything, as much as people really want to see him at fault. It's like blaming James Hetfield if someone gets hurt by pyrotechnics as a Metallica show.

Next up, read any of the discussions with propmaster (actual propmasters) and there's a common theme. No set armorer is having the actor check the gun. Some might allow or require an actor to be part of the check, but the person responsible for checking equipment is the armorer and typically the AD. I was reading a writeup from an IATSE armorer who mentioned that he would take a gun back and recheck it I'd an actor decided to open the cylinder/slide/remove a magazine without being told to, same as a rigger would recheck rigging if an actor started messing with it and a technician would recheck pyrotechnics if an actor decided to check the fuse. That's because the actor is not trained to handle it, doesn't know what power blank is being loaded (if any) until they're told by the armorer.

If I go rappelling I'm responsible for checking my my own gear, but on a film set that goes to the AD, the stunt coordinator and the riggers. I am responsible for my own car, but on a film set the actors aren't checking the brakes and oil on the car, that's the stunt coordinator's job. Same principle applies throughout, because when you start doing something that is more dangerous than driving to work or shooting on a one-way range, you have to observe a different set of safety protocols.

Alex Baldwin, I promise you, doesn't know the difference between a film dummy (inert primer, no powder), a blank, and a live round. Requiring every actor to check a prop gun would result in more NDs from people not super familiar with their operation.

So, listen to what the expert armorers from IATSE are saying. The fault lies with the AD, the armorer, maybe the director and the line producer as well for allowing the set to operate in an unsafe manner. The people who's job it was to ensure things were operating safely didn't do that, but if I pick my car up from the mechanic and it turns out the brake rotors weren't reinstalled, it's not going to be my fault when I rear-end someone, it's gonna be the mechanic who was paid to service my brakes.

I heard on the news tonight that cast members were target shooting with these pistols just for fun.
What the hell!

Ya that was reported two days ago, best wait and see what investigation comes up with. So far this thread is turning into, not my fault, TODDI.

 

[dieselchessy]

Because this was a scene involving #1 (the first listed actor on a callsheet) drawing a revolver and pointing it at the camera (A POV shot for whomever was the target), I'm assuming that the gun may have actually been the focal point of the shot (the object in focus). Because it's a revolver, the camera (and audience) would have been able to tell right away if it was unloaded and empty, so they would have loaded it with "dummy" rounds - cartridges with no powder, and inert primers.

I find this comment a bit odd. Ive watched a few movies and the lack of attention to detail with guns, cars, animals, ect… is generally horrid per my observations. The thought that they would pay attention to having bullets visible for a face on view of a revolver cylinder amazes me. Especially considering they’ll likely have the characters fire off dozens of rounds from a 6 shot cylinder in the same scene never once taking time to reload. Or do an entire movie with a bandolier or ammo belt that is somehow always chock full despite the character going through several gun fights with no apparent chance to restock.
But they worry about a small detail like visible bullet tips in a cylinder for a face on shot? Amazing!

Sad deal all around.

 

[Gone4Days]

Did you guys see the movie’s “armorer”?

 

[CoStick]

Did you guys see the movie’s “armorer”?

She probably made a mistake, but to imply women are not up to the task is pretty poor form.

 

[cod007]

Where is this coming from? People on set confirmed they were filming (haven't seen whether they were rolling or just blocking a shot, if you don't know what blocking is you need to sit this discussion out). I guess from the same source as this documentary claim.

Yeah, listen to the ‘expert’.
Just curious, Cryptid..... you got any videos floating around out there like this ‘armorer’ on set has? I want to see if there’s any similarities amongst you experts.
The world seems to be learning on a daily basis just how helpful and proficient these so called ‘experts’ are turning out to be.
A loaded weapon was in Alec’s hands. He aimed it. He pulled the trigger. It’s on him.
Spin it how ever you might. It’s on him.

 

[crich]

But most actors and actresses are WELL trained on firearms if they take their craft seriously, here is just one example (plenty of others) and the scenery is nice as well:

This crap would never happen on the set of a Keanu Reeves movie.

 

[Rob5589]

So can you confirm Halyna was working on a Hollywood pedo documentary?

Why was this POS waving a gun around, pointing it at these people, and pulling the trigger? They weren't filming at the time. AB is responsible for this. There's a possibility that others may be at fault to some degree. But it was him who pulled the trigger.

What? No idea, I don't know her.

 

[CoStick]

Yeah, listen to the ‘expert’.
Just curious, Cryptid..... you got any videos floating around out there like this ‘armored’ on set has? I want to see if there’s any similarities amongst you experts.
The world seems to be learning on a daily basis just how helpful and proficient these so called ‘experts’ are turning out to be.
A loaded weapon was in Alec’s hands. He aimed it. He pulled the trigger. It’s on him.
Spin it how ever you might. It’s on him.

Thankfully we have a judicial system, so how it plays out.

 

[Ucsdryder]

She probably made a mistake, but to imply women are not up to the task is pretty poor form.

She said she was surprised they made her the armorer because she knew nothing about guns.

 

[CoStick]

She said she was surprised they made her the armorer because she knew nothing about guns.

Actually she is in a family of armorer but felt perhaps she wasn’t ready, where did you read she knew nothing of guns?

 

[Pacific_Fork]

I never in a million years would imagine someone (let alone hunters) defending a man pointing and pulling the trigger of a loaded firearm killing a person. Several Hollywood members in this thread need their heads checked, this is not a joking matter. Zero, ZERO excuse. Nothing but pure negligence and 100% deserves manslaughter charge.

 

[Gone4Days]

She probably made a mistake, but to imply women are not up to the task is pretty poor form.

Ok. But I guess the outcome speaks for itself.

 

[CoStick]

Ok

Exactly

 

[CoStick]

I guess the outcome speaks for itself. One person dead.

She’s obviously a professional and the best 22 year old armorer of all time!

An obviously that was the point of your post and photo…

 

[CoStick]

another area of your interest that has no place on a hunting forum.

 

[TheGDog]

How do you make that work on a movie set where you are going to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger to film a gunfight?

Answer?... Hell...he just gave you the answer! You grab that isht and you check it ya darn self!

Just like I'm sure just about any mofo up on Rokslide would do.. yes?

You're weilding a weapon. WE all know about Brandon Lee's fate and why tht happened with the mob wanting payback w/ Bruce Lee's fam. Soo.... knowing isht like that can go down, you don't Trust ANYBODY when it comes to a Firearm!

When I heard it was a period piece, and apparently back in the era where it was all revolvers, just before semi's.. my next thought was... since the cam can see the cylinders... I wondered how do they go about having an ammo that looks convincing on cam... where the audience can see within the cylinders... and yet have it not be a round loaded with a real bullet? Can they doctor up wax loads to make them look metallic?

 

[Rob5589]

Answer?... Hell...he just gave you the answer! You grab that isht and you check it ya darn self!

Just like I'm sure just about any mofo up on Rokslide would do.. yes?

You're weilding a weapon. WE all know about Brandon Lee's fate and why tht happened with the mob wanting payback w/ Bruce Lee's fam. Soo.... knowing isht like that can go down, you don't Trust ANYBODY when it comes to a Firearm!

When I heard it was a period piece, and apparently back in the era where it was all revolvers, just before semi's.. my next thought was... since the cam can see the cylinders... I wondered how do they go about having an ammo that looks convincing on cam... where the audience can see within the cylinders... and yet have it not be a round loaded with a real bullet? Can they doctor up wax loads to make them look metallic?

Dummy round. Bullet, case, no powder, no primer. I make them to send to gunsmiths for proper chamber cuts. Simple as can be.

 

[TheGDog]

Dummy round. Bullet, case, no powder, no primer. I make them to send to gunsmiths for proper chamber cuts. Simple as can be.

Ah yeah ok. But there again.. end guys duty to open the cylinder and verify the thing you're holding in your hand isn't gonna kill anybody. (As you said no primers, or primers, but no powder, which you can easily verify by taking out the rounds and shaking them) Yeah.. I know it's supposed to be the armorer's job on those movies... but if you trust anybody else with YOUR gun safety?... well... then I'd say you deserve what's coming to ya then if a mistake happens. 2 seconds to check? vs A whole lifetime of a new future for you. Seems like an easy choice to me.

EDIT: And those wax loads I mentioned... you still have to be careful with them too! At close range the wax plug can still mess you up!

 

[Rob5589]

Ah yeah ok. But there again.. end guys duty to open the cylinder and verify the thing you're holding in your hand isn't gonna kill anybody. (As you said no primers, or primers, but no powder, which you can easily verify by taking out the rounds and shaking them) Yeah.. I know it's supposed to be the armorer's job on those movies... but if you trust anybody else with YOUR gun safety?... well... then I'd say you deserve what's coming to ya then if a mistake happens. 2 seconds to check? vs A whole lifetime of a new future for you. Seems like an easy choice to me.

EDIT: And those wax loads I mentioned... you still have to be careful with them too! At close range the wax plug can still mess you up!

I hear ya. Probably the reason live ammo is, supposedly, not allowed on a movie set; too many different hands on too many guns.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

I have shot blank rounds while dog training. I had a handler hand me the gun, first thing I did was check to see if all rounds were blanks. Man that took a long time. I mean I had to actually open the cylinder and look at each round, But I guess that is a waste of time on a movie set. Treat every firearm as if it were loaded. PERIOD. Stop making excuse, people ****** up, plain and simple.