Alaska Sheep Hunt Pricing

[DBMR]

In 2024 I will be starting my own outfitting business in Alaska. Sheep, interior grizzly, coastal brown bears and caribou will be the animals that I intend to offer limited quality backpack style hunts at affordable prices.

I've been sheep hunting/guiding in Alaska for 24 years. I'm a local full time Alaska resident of the interior as well.

I have been working for an outfitter on a federal concession that I am a huge advocate for and plan to submit proposals until I acquire one. In the meantime, I plan to work the draw areas in the interior where I have years of guiding and personal hunts and offer some OTC areas as well.

The title of the thread is "Alaska Sheep Hunting Prices".

I wanted to get some nonresident hunters' opinions who have hunted or might be planning a sheep hunt in the near future. I've been in this business for the last few years as an assistant guide and have seen prices going so high that many folks are throwing their hands up with the thought, they are never going to be able to afford these hunts. And then not to mention the dropping of success percentages in the last few years many nonresidents are seeing in Alaska and in Canadian concessions as well.

I'm considering a hunt price structure on the majority of the hunt on a trophy fee basis only. Example would be as follows:
$8K Dall sheep 12-day hunt (10 actual hunt days......1 day going in travel and 1 day going out in travel)
$20K trophy fee on a Dall sheep SUCCESFUL LEGAL RAM 10-day hunt OR if a legal ram was presented under 400yds with a decent chance of a successful shot.
Client pays the air charter fee directly to the air charter company, but I would make all flight arrangements ($2K estimate for round trip)
$30K all in if successful/had a shot opportunity.
$10K all in if NOT successful

Again, this is in the pre planning stages but I really wanted to get hunters or future hunters' opinions on a fee structure like this. Pro's and cons's.

To the heart of my core, I just can't charge fully for a product IF I can't deliver that product. I had my very first unsuccessful client hunt last year that I was not able to provide a shot opportunity on the client's primary animal (this hunt was a Dall sheep/Griz/Caribou). Owning outfitter would never have considered giving any kind of refund to the client even though the number of miles covered (62 miles), attitude of the hunter was outstanding, and weather was not a factor. Just no sheep available in this area of the concession (this area is over 350 miles from the area that I plan to conduct hunts in)

I know there is a lot of variables that can affect a successful hunt (weather, client's preparedness just to name a few) but for the most part I feel if a guide can't produce results, they should not be compensated FULLY bottom line. Again, that is my opinion.

I am not here trying to solicit hunts or anything like that. I have gotten opinions from other guides and booking agents (almost ALL of them are negative to this line of thinking on pricing). Now I am here for the "clients" view on this.

Thoughts??

Thanks in advance for your constructive input. Look forward to reading any comments.

 

[Scottf270]

I really like the idea. I don't know if your "numbers" are 100% perfect but like the concept. I can assure you will find virtually no support from other outfitters, guides or booking agents.

There are gray areas when it comes to what's considered a legitimate opportunity. Also hunter fitness, ability and attitude enter into this as well. Some risk to both parties if all details aren't perfectly clear.

I did a similar "exploratory" hunt for brown bear a few years ago. His hunts were normally 25 grand. He offered 15 grand for the hunt with a 10 grand kill fee. We both had skin in the game and both would benefit if a bear was taken.

I hunted 12 days, lost 3 to travel and weather. Could have taken a young 9 ft bear but not what either of us were after. I paid or "tipped" him 5 grand. I think we both felt good about the hunt and still talk and visit to this day.

I would offer that your "reward" for a successful hunt needs to be big enough to cover your "failures" to get your client their animal.

Interesting idea. Good luck to you.

 

[eamyrick]

Solid idea. When sheep was a “if I show up fit, good mindset, solid marksman, listen to the guide” I have a very high chance of killing a ram then I think the old structure works. While the population is in recovery I would be more than happy to follow your proposed structure but I’m not in a place where I would pay the full amount for extremely low opportunity (I’d just go to the Unlimited units for $1000.)

 

[npm352]

This is a good price structure.

Other outfitters will be pissed.

There needs to be more of this in North America.

 

[Alder_]

I think you need to cover your hiney more.
18K all in if not successful 30k if successful.

Or 20K + 10K trophy fee.

 

[eddielasvegas]

I am glad you posted this and @npm352 is spot on about pushback from your competition.

I think I made a post a few months ago about DIY vs. a guided hunt and my reluctance to use the latter for the exact reasons your pricing model addresses. All parties need some skin in the game if a successful hunt is accomplished and I am sure some adjustments will be needed, but your idea is good IMHO.

Best of luck with your new business.


Eddie

 

[Doc Holliday]

The “shot opportunity” is going to be subjective and eventually lead to an issue. 15k hunt, 15k trophy fee if ram is wounded or killed.

Run the numbers on how many hunters you can take per year X the base hunt price you want to charge. Assume no one pays a trophy fee all year just to be conservative. If you can live with $8k per hunter then do it, but I imagine you will want to increase that number.

If the hunter is going to ultimately need to be good for $30k before starting the hunt, the small base price is only a sales tactic to get bookings, and has downside risk only for you.

 

[johnnycake]

As a resident, I'm not who you're asking to hear from so my apologies in advance. It's an interesting take, and certainly adds to the discussions elsewhere online with guides/outfitters claiming the 2-3x increase in pricing over the last decade hasn't been lining their pockets any thicker.

From your numbers, it looks like your costs, including 10 days of your time, experience, equipment (amortized and depreciated appropriately), transporter etc., come out to $10k. Given how free markets work, that figure probably isn't too far off the costs of other guides not using a base+ trophy fee model. That certainly leaves a healthy margin on top for those selling +$25k sheep hunts in Alaska whether or not you kill a ram.

If that's what the market bears, that's what it is and good on those who can do that on both ends of the transaction.

Good luck OP.

 

[Murphy]

I think it's a great idea and hunter's will certainly book your hunts so long as you provide a good quality safe experience. I know I would jump on that hunt if I was looking to do another Alaska sheep hunt. Good luck and I hope you succeed as you assuredly will get negative responses from other outfitters.

 

[WalterH]

Interesting proposition and best of luck in your new endeavor.

A few thoughts and questions that I am sure you've probably already pondered and received feedback on.

Why do current guides charge what they do for these hunts?

I think a big part of the answer to that is because to conduct these hunts well with a reasonable if not high chance of success, it is expensive. Insurance, wages for support staff, scouting hours, etc. etc. Combine that with the short season in Alaska and that fact that I don't think any ethical sheep guide in the state should be putting more than 2-3 sheep hunters out in their area given the status of the sheep population, there isn't a lot of wiggle room to make a living. Sure many have increased their prices because that is what the market can bear and people are willing to pay, but running these trips with support staff and airplanes is not cheap.

Another thing that I don't like about your proposed model, no offense intended, is that it fosters the idea that a client is buying an animal instead of a hunt. I feel that mindset is prevalent and problematic enough as it is in the industry and culture and I would hate to see the industry continue to foster that attitude of entitlement. I think giving some sort of financial nod to the client as a result of not harvesting, such as a discount on another trip, etc. is a positive thing. Making the majority of your compensation contingent upon killing an animal though I don't think is professional or a good thing for the industry. Your costs will be relatively fixed and I think clients should pay for a hunt and a guides best effort, not the expectation of killing something. Guided mountaineering clients pay for a mountaineering trip and a guides best effort,, not a summit. I think commercial hunting trips should be the same.

Given the status of the sheep population in the state, and that you will be dependent on transporters to get you into your areas and likely won't be able to scout, it seems to me that you will more than likely be running cheap, unsuccessful trips. No discredit to your experience and abilities of course. The animals just aren't there any more. As much as I hate to say it, a huge part of sheep success in AK, more so that in the past, is going to come down to aerial scouting for the foreseeable future.

I think your estimate of $2k round-trip for flights is way low. Does the client cover their flight and yours? Most cub trips into good sheep country start at about $3500 per person and go up from there.

Will you doing all of the guiding and work yourself or be hiring assistants and/or packers? At $8k a trip I would assume you would be doing everything yourself. Sheep season is two months long here, so at most you could run 4 sheep trips a year. Realistically 3 as the last 10 days of the season is not for the faint of heart.
If you swing and miss on each, that is $24-$32k of gross income before your expenses, which would be minimal as an owner/operator probably, but not non-existent. Is that enough to put food on your table and gas in the tank until the next round of hunts? If so, more power to you. Seems like a pretty meager living for a lot of work and not a gamble I'd be willing to take given the lack of rams on the mtn. these days. Counting on killing rams to make a living seems like a foolhardy proposition at the moment.

Good on ya for asking the question and soliciting input. I hope things work out one way or another and again best of luck.

 

[Choogiak]

Population is not recovering in Alaska. We have set record low harvest numbers the last three years in a row. Fish and game had a public meeting in Fairbanks and the outlook was extremely pessimistic across the state. If you are going to spend crazy money on a sheep hunt go to Canada

 

[IBen]

This will get you a lot of legal disputes. Too much money and too much grey area and it will be your story vs the hunters. “Guide told me to shoot with 20 mph cross wind” I’m not paying 20k for a missed shot. Meanwhile you will have guys offering 20k flat to take them over the 8k/20k guy. Eventually you’ll succumb to that type of client. Value your time and expertise, maintaining your area, guide license fees, insurance, money spent on flying. If you are operating as a single man guiding business you can undercut guys with lodges, cooks, airplanes, packers etc. I would just undercut the typical 26-32k hunts. You could do 10-14k guided caribou hunts with a 6k sheep trophy fee (in cash) do you really want to be chasing a guy down for 20k at the end of the season? You will probably want that in cash and a lot of people are weary traveling with more than 10k.
Also do you really want to cater to cheap clients? They will get buyers remorse half way up the mountain to a legal ram and then what?
I get where you’re coming from as I have had a similar idea but after talking more experienced people I realized it wouldn't work

 

[gearguywb]

I think the idea is legitimate, but as others have said, you will end up with a lot of issues as to what was a reasonable shot.

Watching folks that show up for guided hunts with no equipment, rifle they have never/can't/won't shoot well, etc.

The opposite is also true. Folks that show up in decent shape, well used gear, spent a fair amount of time on the range, and most importantly, a good attitude. These are the folks you are looking for as clients.

 

[S.Clancy]

IMO, the market will quickly push this model to the current model of pricing. There are, apparently, ALOT of guys out there willing to dump 30K+ on sheep with no guarantee.

I would just concentrate on doing your best as an outfitter to not overbook hunts and provide the best possible experience to your clients and forget about your above pricing structure.

 

[wyosteve]

I feel you've got a good concept if you can solidify the details. Although I've never hunted Africa, my understanding is they have somewhat of a similar model with trophy fees. As others have said, I think both sides need some skin in the game. There seem to be plenty of stories of inexperienced guides, etc. where the hunter never gets an opportunity so why should he pay for a sub-par hunt. However, you need to consider how to enforce the payment of the fee on a successful hunt. What if the hunter does not pay the 'success' fee? How is that handled. Appreciate your willingness to think outside of the box.

 

[T28w]

Have you been guiding for 24 years? I think not because you would know that this won’t work. This will get you a lot of legal disputes. Too much money and too much grey area and it will be your story vs the hunters. “Guide told me to shoot with 20 mph cross wind” I’m not paying 20k for a missed shot. Meanwhile you will have guys offering 20k flat to take them over the 8k/20k guy. Eventually you’ll succumb to that type of client. Value your time and expertise, maintaining your area, guide license fees, insurance, money spent on flying. If you are operating as a single man guiding business you can undercut guys with lodges, cooks, airplanes, packers etc. I would just undercut the typical 26-32k hunts. You could do 10-14k guided caribou hunts with a 6k sheep trophy fee (in cash) do you really want to be chasing a guy down for 20k at the end of the season? You will probably want that in cash and a lot of people are weary traveling with more than 10k.
Also do you really want to cater to cheap clients? They will get buyers remorse half way up the mountain to a legal ram and then what?
I get where you’re coming from as I have had a similar idea but after talking more experienced people I realized it wouldn't work

Pretty spot on here.

In theory it’s a great idea/Model
In practice it’s a terrible idea.

Edited to add that I’m not saying you haven’t been a guide for 24 years. But otherwise agree with everything in the post.

 

[hunt1up]

I've only done a few cheap guided western hunts and I have my first sheep hunt booked for 2025, so my opinion is a rookie one. But from purely a business perspective I'd think you need to provide yourself with more financial certainty than the numbers proposed. Something like 75% of the trip cost up front, 25% as trophy fee.

 

[fatlander]

From the outside looking in I’d be really weary of booking this.

It sounds admirable at first glance, but you’re either banking on killing sheep or taking enough unsuspecting dopes on expensive camping trips to make your nut. If you’re that good at killing sheep, just charge the market price. If they don’t have an opportunity, offer them back at a steep discount.

Good luck on your venture.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mdoolin]

Like others have mentioned I would imagine the market will end up driving your prices up quickly but I do like the idea. I honestly think approaching sheep specifically like this would help guided hunts throughout the state put less pressure on having to kill an animal. I know a lot of guys are booking 30k hunts with no garuntees but I'm willing to be there is still a ton of pressure, both guide and hunter, to make somethign happen. When there is only 10k on the line there are would be a lot less pressure on average allowing you to be more selective.

I do also see the issues with shot opportunity and ensuring you get paid after an animal is harvested. But great idea thinking outside the box!

At some point I would imagine the juice won't be worth the squeeze and people will stop paying 30k for low success hunts. They would likely however spend 10K for the experience and chance.

 

[AK_Skeeter]

Can you make a living at $8k per client if all were unsuccessful?

I assume you would have 2 hunts Aug 10-20, Aug 20-Sept 10.
If you had 8 total clients, that would total only $64k gross for the entire sheep season.