Alaska Sheep Harvest 2023

[adventure907]

Subsistence rams are required to be sealed.

 

[WalterH]

So my impression was that most rams taken under subsistence harvest in the national parks are still sealed and measured by ADFG, and that a harvest ticket is punched. They then show up in the ADFG database like such:

So in these harvest stats from 2021 for unit 11, all of those 3-5yo rams with 14”-25” horns are harvested under “any ram” subsistence regs. Of course some subsistence guys also kill big rams and those numbers are in this table somewhere too, but otherwise unidentifiable as subsistence harvest (except for the rams harvested in MtnHerd D, referring to Chugach, and 100% of the Chugach in unit 11 is Hard Park). Anyway I figure that at least a dozen or so of the rams in the unit 11 stats shown here are subsistence harvest.


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This is pretty much spot on from what I understand.

Looking at the subsistence regs, when the regs spell out a specific permit number (FSXXXX), animals taken under those permits are reported to the feds and adfg for sealing. The elder hunts in Units 11 and 12 for example. These harvests show up in the federal subsistence harvest data.

Animals taken under fed subsistence "general hunt" regs don't require a fed permits, just state harvest ticket, and are only reported to adfg. They don't show up in the fed subsistence harvest info. Both show up in the adfg harvest data.

I think 1) it is crazy that sheep are classified as a subsistence animal, and that 2) ewes and sub-legals can be killed for subsistence.

To me subsistence hunting should be limited to the biggest return on investment if "subsisting" and survival are the priorities. Hard to compare the yield on a sheep to a moose or caribou. It seems like a significant number of "subsistence" hunters are after trophy class animals more often than not.

 

[mtwarden]

We won't know participation totals until all residents turn in their HT. Based on the last 2 years of prelim stats... Total participation this year is around 220nr and 1450 res, but we won't know for a while. Both are down a bit but not a lot.

Are those participation numbers pretty close for years past?

I'm wondering if roughly a 50% (114/220) harvest for nonresidents might slow participation some for them????

Is there any caps for nonresident participation? Is there any caps on how many licenses an outfitter can have?

The outfitter I hunted with (Brooks) had less sheep hunters than in the past, but it sounded like a decision he made based on what he was seeing, not anything the G&F dictated. If true, an outfitter looking to maximizing profit and not giving a tinker's dam about the population could really reek some havoc on a population.

It would seem prudent to have some realistic caps, based on population estimates, for outfitters- not an unlimited number of licenses. Maybe that is the way it is, but didn't sound that way from visiting with the outfitter I used.

 

[WalterH]

Are those participation numbers pretty close for years past?

I'm wondering if roughly a 50% (114/220) harvest for nonresidents might slow participation some for them????

Is there any caps for nonresident participation? Is there any caps on how many licenses an outfitter can have?

The outfitter I hunted with (Brooks) had less sheep hunters than in the past, but it sounded like a decision he made based on what he was seeing, not anything the G&F dictated. If true, an outfitter looking to maximizing profit and not giving a tinker's dam about the population could really reek some havoc on a population.

It would seem prudent to have some realistic caps, based on population estimates, for outfitters- not an unlimited number of licenses. Maybe that is the way it is, but didn't sound that way from visiting with the outfitter I used.

Limits on animals that guides can take, and number of guides in an area varies from place to place.

On state land, generally speaking, there are no limits on the # of guides in an area and the number of clients a guide or transporter can run.

On fed land, some fed land managers limit # of guides and trips guides can run, others do not. All depends on the area.

Some guides self-limit harvest based on concern for their impact on the resource. Others limit their trips because they can only fill so many tags based on current #s of sheep and don't want unhappy customers. Other don't care about other and take all of the business they can get.

Some limits on total # of guides, guides in given areas, and harvest limits on commercial operators is long overdue across the board up here.

I think res and non-res participation have dropped off at about the same rates as of late. Res success has always seemed to hover around 20% regardless of participation. Non-res success used to be reliably around 70-80%, so 50% would be a definite decline. The 114/220 is a breakdown of how many sheep nr vs. rs killed, not overall participation and success rate.

 

[mtwarden]

The 114/220 is a breakdown of how many sheep nr vs. rs killed, not overall participation and success rate.

he posted nr harvest at 114 and then later provided data that nr participation was 220; resident harvest thus far 202, participation ~ 1450

it's two different posts and the data is preliminary, but probably pretty close

 

[Yellowknife]

Are those participation numbers pretty close for years past?

I'm wondering if roughly a 50% (114/220) harvest for nonresidents might slow participation some for them????

Non-Resident hunter numbers haven't been below 400 in the modern era and it was consistently 500+ in the 90's and early 2000's. The drop off over the last few years is substantial. I suspect participation will continue to slow, as there is often a two year lag between bookings and hunts in the sheep business and people are just now starting to pick up on what kind of trouble the state is in.

 

[WalterH]

he posted nr harvest at 114 and then later provided data that nr participation was 220; resident harvest thus far 202, participation ~ 1450

it's two different posts and the data is preliminary, but probably pretty close

Gotcha. Missed that first time around. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[WalterH]

A friend who hunted sheep in Canada this year said that things are going the same way down there, but the guides are trying really, really hard to keep that quiet, as much of the business that had been going to Alaska is headed their way as the current perception is that they are still doing well down in the Yukon and NWT.

I think populations have dropped significantly as well down there, but they started from a higher point and will have less competition for better numbers and age class of rams as compared to AK, at least for the foreseeable future.

 

[Nick Muche]

I’ve heard the same…

 

[carsonkeys]

A friend who hunted sheep in Canada this year said that things are going the same way down there, but the guides are trying really, really hard to keep that quiet, as much of the business that had been going to Alaska is headed their way as the current perception is that they are still doing well down in the Yukon and NWT.

I think populations have dropped significantly as well down there, but they started from a higher point and will have less competition for better numbers and age class of rams as compared to AK, at least for the foreseeable future.

I’ve heard the same…

Unfortunately, it sounds like you’re right. At the recent meeting in Fairbanks, Brad Wendling said the declines we’re seeing in AK are also being seen throughout the entire thinhorn range save for one place in the NWT (IIRC).

 

[mtwarden]

A friend who hunted sheep in Canada this year said that things are going the same way down there, but the guides are trying really, really hard to keep that quiet, as much of the business that had been going to Alaska is headed their way as the current perception is that they are still doing well down in the Yukon and NWT.

I think populations have dropped significantly as well down there, but they started from a higher point and will have less competition for better numbers and age class of rams as compared to AK, at least for the foreseeable future.

My buddy won a Yukon hunt (lucky bastard)- he said they had to hunt really hard to find rams. He ended up finding one near the end of a ten day hunt.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

In line with this thread, here is a great podcast with Wayne Heimer, a long time bio and sheep hunter in Fairbanks.

Episode 159: Sheep Management History, with Wayne Heimer

Podcast Episode · Tundra Talk Podcast · 10/30/2023 · 2h 4m

podcasts.apple.com

 

[rlm]

Certainly the populations are low - but we have seen some very dramatic swings in the past - such as McKinley Park in the forties and the HulaHula. In the early 50s on the HulaHulla survey they observed 75 sheep and estimated 150 - in the 70s or early 80s the survey counted over 3000.

Are there any documented counts on thew Hula Hula prior to the 50's?

 

[wantj43]

Are there any documented counts on thew Hula Hula prior to the 50's?

 

[wantj43]

This is the earliest survey I am aware of for the HulaHula. However, there is information that provides an indication of sheep population levels available for local use from early in the last century.

 

[akwchil]

I don't know if it was recorded. It was very similar to the presentation from last year. The new stuff was the harvest data from this year, survey data from this year and the project in the brooks.
Brooks project seems really interesting. Collared two groups of rams, one in the national park and one across the haul road in an area that sees heavy hunting pressure.
They will then look at ram mortality over the next years and see what effect hunting has. They also have money to collar ewes and do population surveys to compare lambing rates etc.

A couple issues I see are that there is subsistence hunting going on in the park, and it sounds like it is somehow hard to get the harvest numbers. Also predators are not hunted in the park and maybe that makes a difference

Is that area along the Haul road some of the closed Federal land?

 

[akwchil]

Does anyone know what the natural Mortality rate is between weather, predation, and old age? On the opposite side of this does anyone know what the average recruitment rate is as well?

 

[ColeyG]

https://www.wildsheepfoundation.org/cache/DOC443_TomLohuisADFGChugachAKDallsSheep.pdf?20220531024553

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/regulations/regprocess/gameboard/sheepcomm/pdfs/6lamb.pdf

Dall Sheep Research in Southcentral Alaska, Alaska Department of Fish and Game

Alaska Wildlife News is an online magazine published by the Alaska Department of Fish and Game

www.adfg.alaska.gov

https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/files/wirac-dall-sheep-management-plan-guidelines.pdf

Lots more out there on the topic

 

[Choogiak]

That last article brings up a lot of interesting questions regarding older adult rams and if they are important to sheep populations. The current dogma that mature full curl rams are "excess" and could all be shot every year without negative effects on sheep populations may not be true.
Super interesting regarding the pheromone that attracts ewes and the idea that the social presence of older rams plays a role in over all sheep survival

 

[cbeard64]

I have always been skeptical of the set-in-stone mantra that older age class rams were “excess” (basically useless) on the landscape. Nature doesn’t keep “excess” around long and years 8-12 are a third of a ram’s life.