Alaska Sheep Harvest 2023

[akwchil]

I don't know if it was recorded. It was very similar to the presentation from last year. The new stuff was the harvest data from this year, survey data from this year and the project in the brooks.
Brooks project seems really interesting. Collared two groups of rams, one in the national park and one across the haul road in an area that sees heavy hunting pressure.
They will then look at ram mortality over the next years and see what effect hunting has. They also have money to collar ewes and do population surveys to compare lambing rates etc.

A couple issues I see are that there is subsistence hunting going on in the park, and it sounds like it is somehow hard to get the harvest numbers. Also predators are not hunted in the park and maybe that makes a difference

Is that area along the Haul road some of the closed Federal land?

 

[akwchil]

Does anyone know what the natural Mortality rate is between weather, predation, and old age? On the opposite side of this does anyone know what the average recruitment rate is as well?

 

[ColeyG]

https://www.wildsheepfoundation.org/cache/DOC443_TomLohuisADFGChugachAKDallsSheep.pdf?20220531024553

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/regulations/regprocess/gameboard/sheepcomm/pdfs/6lamb.pdf

Dall Sheep Research in Southcentral Alaska, Alaska Department of Fish and Game

Alaska Wildlife News is an online magazine published by the Alaska Department of Fish and Game

www.adfg.alaska.gov

https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/files/wirac-dall-sheep-management-plan-guidelines.pdf

Lots more out there on the topic

 

[Choogiak]

That last article brings up a lot of interesting questions regarding older adult rams and if they are important to sheep populations. The current dogma that mature full curl rams are "excess" and could all be shot every year without negative effects on sheep populations may not be true.
Super interesting regarding the pheromone that attracts ewes and the idea that the social presence of older rams plays a role in over all sheep survival

 

[cbeard64]

I have always been skeptical of the set-in-stone mantra that older age class rams were “excess” (basically useless) on the landscape. Nature doesn’t keep “excess” around long and years 8-12 are a third of a ram’s life.

 

[ColeyG]

The more people I talk to about this "loss of the leader" theory, the more credibility I've come to believe it has.

In years past I think there were enough mature rams left on the mountain that younger rams could still find an experienced mentor to follow around.
These days, a given herd or local population may only have one or two mature rams in the mix. It is not hard to imagine the one or two older rams getting taken out in any given year due to hunting or other cause of mortality. In fact, I know if two examples of this having happened in the past year, one in the Wrangells and another in the Chugach. The legal rams in each area were scouted in advance of the season and killed by hunters, leaving behind a handful of younger,, I would say immature rams.

As a number of people have pointed out, it has become increasingly more common to see young rams alone or in very small groups without a mture ram in the mix. I just recall seeing that with any regularity a handful of years ago.

Watching young rams follow mature rams around in the mountains and queue all of their movements off of what the boss does, the links to survival and this leadership (winter/summer habitat, seasonal movements, avoiding predators, etc.) seem apparent.

 

[wantj43]

I certainly don’t know the answer but the population numbers seem to suggest that sheep numbers are down regardless of the management strategy. Historically this has also been the situation.

 

[mtwarden]

Well seeing that fish and game departments can’t do anything about the weather; if populations are dipping too much then they do something that they can control- harvest.

To what extent that reduced harvest is and how they accomplish it, I’ll leave that to the experts.

In Montana our department looks at game populations as below objective, at objective and at above objective. Each one comes with a different set of regulations. Below calls for more stringent regulations to cut harvest, above more liberal and at objective- somewhere between.

As populations fluctuate, so do the regulations.

You can’t hardly expect one set of regulations to cover low to high populations.

 

[ColeyG]

You can’t hardly expect one set of regulations to cover low to high populations.

That is exactly the situation here in Alaska.

According to the current science that the managers are using to guide their decision making, harvest is not a factor at the population level As such, curtailing harvest will have no impact on populations as a whole.

Curtailing harvest will, however, have an impact on hunters.

 

[IBen]

Sheep surveys are the same in hunted and non hunting areas right? Thats what the biologists said at the meeting last year so across the board the two variables that all sheep have in common are weather and predators. It seems like lot of people on here discount the predator issue. After listening the tundra talk podcast with the sheep biologist and peter pandas podcast with the Canadian outfitter I’d say predators have a much larger effect. From what I've heard predator control past was very extreme, like poisoning and giving tags to shoot from the air. Predators aren’t killing six and seven and eight year old sheep they’re killing ewes and lambs. I don’t agree with killing six and seven-year-olds that are full curl. I think the regulations should be both full curl and 8 years old or just 8 year olds. I hunt in an area where the Rams hit full curl at six and seven but I’ve heard of areas where they don't hit full curl at all. Just my 2 cents.

 

[diamond10x]

Sheep surveys are the same in hunted and non hunting areas right? Thats what the biologists said at the meeting last year so across the board the two variables that all sheep have in common are weather and predators. It seems like lot of people on here discount the predator issue. After listening the tundra talk podcast with the sheep biologist and peter pandas podcast with the Canadian outfitter I’d say predators have a much larger effect. From what I've heard predator control past was very extreme, like poisoning and giving tags to shoot from the air. Predators aren’t killing six and seven and eight year old sheep they’re killing ewes and lambs. I don’t agree with killing six and seven-year-olds that are full curl. I think the regulations should be both full curl and 8 years old or just 8 year olds. I hunt in an area where the Rams hit full curl at six and seven but I’ve heard of areas where they don't hit full curl at all. Just my 2 cents.

I recently shared a duck blind with a gentleman who was born and raised in AK and still guides even in his 70's. His opinion was "back in the day we killed predators on site for safety and conservation of game and game populations were high but when tight restrictions were placed on bears and wolves is when all ungulate populations started to decline". Obviously we can't control weather, but we can control the impact that predators have. Has anyone looked at any of the other ungulate populations alongside sheep? I'm just curious if they too will show a decline from where they were in the 80's/90's to now?

 

[SLDMTN]

First paragraph mainly, straight from the trapping regs book.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MBN]

I have always been skeptical of the set-in-stone mantra that older age class rams were “excess” (basically useless) on the landscape. Nature doesn’t keep “excess” around long and years 8-12 are a third of a ram’s life.

Not if it dies at 8. Even in unhunted areas a 12 year old ram has had quite the bit of luck to get that old. I believe that is the point of the 8 year mark. Have you looked at mortality study's after 8 years old for a ram?

 

[cbeard64]

Yeah, I’m not ever buying that so few live longer than 8 anyway that there’s no impact. Sorry. Rams that live past 8 constitute the overwhelming majority of the ram harvest, not just in AK but across all of NA.

And f there really were so few that would survive naturally and their importance to herd survival as a whole is great - then our impact is even greater.

 

[MBN]

I never said there was 0 impact. Just saying the average ram doesn't live 12, and the average ram's last third of there life isn't 8-12 years. They do constitute the overwhelming majority of harvest being the rules put in place make them the legal ones to harvest.

 

[Atigun]

Yeah, I’m not ever buying that so few live longer than 8 anyway that there’s no impact. Sorry. Rams that live past 8 constitute the overwhelming majority of the ram harvest, not just in AK but across all of NA.

And f there really were so few that would survive naturally and their importance to herd survival as a whole is great - then our impact is even greater.

A 9 year old ram is essentially considered the tipping point of being a prime breeder. This is the reason why most seasoned sheep hunters and outfitters attempt to harvest 9+ year old rams to conserve their area (regardless of the 8 year old law.) An 8+ year old ram isn’t considered useless on the landscape, he is just considered past his prime breeding years and therefor out of a given population he is the best to select for harvest while the 5,6,7,8 year olds remain to breed and carry on his genetics. Once a ram starts participating in the rut and breeding it is assumed his remaining years are reduced to 2-3 more years due to the physical demands of the rut and going into winters in an already weakened state which leads to vulnerability etc. Even during times with moderate winters and good populations it is still difficult to find 8+ year olds while seeing a large amount of 7 year olds is common. We are not overly hunting 8+ year old rams, there are several other factors at play which at this current time includes harsh winters. This is just my opinion based on studying genetics, population dynamics, and the mentoring of old time sheep hunters with decades of experience.

 

[ColeyG]

Rams that live past 8 constitute the overwhelming majority of the ram harvest, not just in AK but across all of NA.

That is not the case in Alaska, at least not any more. The average age of rams killed has been trending down pretty significantly.

The average age the last few years has barely been over 8 with 5-8 y/o rams accounting for over half of the sheep killed. Last year for example, 258 out of 424 rams were 8 or younger. 186 were 7 or younger.

 

[Snyd]

Coyotes and Golden Eagles

Alaska’s Most Powerful Bird of Prey, Alaska Department of Fish and Game

Alaska Wildlife News is an online magazine published by the Alaska Department of Fish and Game

www.adfg.alaska.gov

"Eagles and coyotes are the primary predators of Dall sheep lambs,"

Thousands of golden eagles depend on Alaska | Geophysical Institute

The number of golden eagles that spend summers in Alaska is more than three times the previous estimate, biologists just determined.

www.gi.alaska.edu

"The number of golden eagles that spend summers in Alaska is more than three times the previous estimate, biologists just determined.

At least 12,700 of the 12-pound predatory birds migrate to Alaska each summer in order to create new golden eagles. That number is about one-quarter of all the golden eagles in North America."

Good News about Golden Eagles, Alaska Department of Fish and Game

Alaska Wildlife News is an online magazine published by the Alaska Department of Fish and Game

www.adfg.alaska.gov

"Their estimate of almost 13,000 Golden Eagles indicates Alaska is likely home to a quarter of the entire US population."

 

[ColeyG]

Coyotes and Golden Eagles

Alaska’s Most Powerful Bird of Prey, Alaska Department of Fish and Game

Alaska Wildlife News is an online magazine published by the Alaska Department of Fish and Game

www.adfg.alaska.gov

"Eagles and coyotes are the primary predators of Dall sheep lambs,"

Thousands of golden eagles depend on Alaska | Geophysical Institute

The number of golden eagles that spend summers in Alaska is more than three times the previous estimate, biologists just determined.

www.gi.alaska.edu

"The number of golden eagles that spend summers in Alaska is more than three times the previous estimate, biologists just determined.

At least 12,700 of the 12-pound predatory birds migrate to Alaska each summer in order to create new golden eagles. That number is about one-quarter of all the golden eagles in North America."

Good News about Golden Eagles, Alaska Department of Fish and Game

Alaska Wildlife News is an online magazine published by the Alaska Department of Fish and Game

www.adfg.alaska.gov

"Their estimate of almost 13,000 Golden Eagles indicates Alaska is likely home to a quarter of the entire US population."

From the ADFG study on Ewe and lamb mortality published in 2014

 

[Snyd]

Yup, and nothing we can do about the 13000 Eagles. Also interesting is that Eagle predation on various species changes with the Hare cycle. Low Hares, other species get hit harder. Like sheep.