AK Sheep, Population Observations

[Bambistew]

Sublegal harvest was high this year. I wonder what % of sublegal sheep are first time sheep hunters? Can you crunch that number @Bambistew

Maybe a winter project. Figuring out what ones are sub-legal will be the hard part. I've sorted the 7yo/sub FC, but that doesn't mean they weren't sealed... Figuring out the code will take a few beers.

A rough guess would say that at least 68% since they make up that portion of the hunter population each year.

 

[Bambistew]

I don’t believe you’re going to like the answer. Two sole use concession outfitters bordering WSENP each guided one sheep hunter this year. Neither is guiding sheep next year.

When one of them wrote a paper years ago with photo evidence about wolves killing sheep for sport, no one wanted to hear it. People still don’t seem to want to hear it.

Well there’s entire bands of sheep missing this year on both sides of the imaginary line. Weather? Wolves? Both?

The rams below are gone. They shouldn’t be. It wasn’t from hunters, not two legged ones at least.

Now imagine with me if you will, after your family has lived and guided out of the area referenced above for 75 years, that you are the main problem by a group of folks.

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Sad deal for sure. From what I've read and heard is the populations in the parks that are off limits are also declining. The thing I wonder most about this inference is how good was the population data we're comparing it too? Are those historic numbers representative?

I know I ran across a paper somewhere recently with the subject related to dynamics between wolf population and bunny populations I believe it was. I wonder if this is also playing into our situation? Bunny's are dying off, but predator numbers that depend on them have peaked. Sort of a perfect storm for sheep with the depressed populations and high predator numbers.

 

[Outdoorsman12b]

@Thunder I pocket quoted you apologies.

 

[Sourdough]

When one of them wrote a paper years ago with photo evidence about wolves killing sheep for sport, no one wanted to hear it. People still don’t seem to want to hear it.

Yes........Paul had some ugly, and disgusting photos. I have watched wolves kill for "sport". Kill all the sheep in the flock, then trot away. I have watched them kill several caribou and trot away. posted on a different forum, of long ago seeing wolf packs of over fifty wolves in the western Brooks Range, near the mouth of the Ambler River.

 

[Sourdough]

In a bowl the back of Mosquito Creek (out west) watched about twenty wolves racing around pulling caribou calves half birthed "out" of the cow, pulled out and shaken, then race to the next calf half born, and pull it out. There was about (estimated) 300 or 400 Caribou in that snow filled bowl, and the snow was red with blood and death. Was repulsive to watch, so just flew away.

 

[Thunder]

Yes........Paul had some ugly, and disgusting photos. I have watched wolves kill for "sport". Kill all the sheep in the flock, then trot away. I have watched them kill several caribou and trot away. posted on a different forum, of long ago seeing wolf packs of over fifty wolves in the western Brooks Range, near the mouth of the Ambler River.

flock huh? Was your mom little red riding hood? It's beginning to sound like it...

 

[Jacques Etcheverry]

We took 9 wolves out of 3 packs in a section of the wrangle mountains this spring. From trail camera photos and the new guides successful hunter photos, the sheep numbers have improved.


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[Thunder]

We took 9 wolves out of 3 packs in a section of the wrangle mountains this spring. From trail camera photos and the new guides successful hunter photos, the sheep numbers have improved.


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That’s a quick recovery! Good luck getting them again and thanks!

 

[AlaskaMark]

How would this proposal have any real effect on sheep populations? Seems we'd just swap the harvest ticket from NR to Res. If killing less rams a year was the silver bullet, we should have seen an explosion of sheep numbers in the Chugach post draw. Yet here we are 15 years later with fewer sheep and still 1/4 of the sheep hunters.

This seems cut and dry to me, maybe a beer would help next time I'm around your way, and Nick's way. There is no silver bullet, never said or implied there was. Killing less sheep, just like cutting down on wounding loss and sub-legal take, is a benefit. The only way to do that in OTC areas with unlimited hunting is to limit hunters. The non-resident component should be limited first, especially in 19C.

Never again should the Board of Game move to draw only sheep hunts for all in OTC areas without first limiting the nonresident component. Our past RHAK proposal is all about trying to prevent what happened in the Chugach.

 

[Thunder]

So restricting non residents in 19c will prevent what happened in the Chugach? Riiiiight.

what % is wounding loss? Isn’t the sublegal take higher with residents than guided non residents? Maybe RHWP could focus on putting on some classes to curb resident sublegal harvest? That’s a win win for both sides and neither side has to have further restrictions.

Get less outfitters and guides in 19c. Makes it easier to fly around and spot sheep without people turning you in. Helps the resource if you don’t have to hunt them, just harvest them. Got it.

 

[Jacques Etcheverry]

So restricting non residents in 19c will prevent what happened in the Chugach? Riiiiight.

what % is wounding loss? Isn’t the sublegal take higher with residents than guided non residents? Maybe RHWP could focus on putting on some classes to curb resident sublegal harvest? That’s a win win for both sides and neither side has to have further restrictions.

Get less outfitters and guides in 19c. Makes it easier to fly around and spot sheep without people turning you in. Helps the resource if you don’t have to hunt them, just harvest them. Got it.

Sounds like you would be the perfect teacher for a class.


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[Thunder]

Sounds like you would be the perfect teacher for a class.


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And you should handle predator management for the state. You solved it all in one spring

 

[IBen]

Of course you totally lack the gonads to bet money on that.

Why would I hunt for my social security check......??? It is deposited automatically every month into my checking account. I'll bet you ten thousand dollars I can prove that has been the case for 12 years plus. Of course you are lacking gonads. I assume you know exactly where I live, but that only proves you know very little if anything about game populations in this area. For another ten thousand dollars, I show you where that pocket of sheep hides. Of course you got no gonads.

The bottom line is I have been hunting/guiding/flying in Alaska it for over five decades, and you whoever you are....are jealous, that I spent a lifetime flying my airplanes all over Alaska, doing game population surveys, and flying for many guiding companies, and ferrying planes back and forth from lower-48.

You might be surprised what a commercial pilot driving super cubs all over Alaska for four decades knows about where there are pockets of Dall Sheep.

Actually two other hunters (one was only 16 y/o) have both walked into this spot, shot full curl rams and out the same day. I have no idea who you are, nor do I care, but high probability, I was shooting Dall Sheep when you were in school, maybe diapers.

It must suck to be as insecure as you are.

I enjoy the

I have to disagree with RHWP (resident hunters with planes) proposal to make 19c a quota for sheep. 19c is primarily accessed by aircraft so access is very limited. There are very few transporters willing to take you into there too. If you make it a quota for sheep i feel like this will put pressure by outfitters in other areas. Just my opinion.

I've never heard anyone complain about 19c in terms of crowding etc. I have heard numerous complaints of some RHWP founding members getting called out for circling sheep in those areas. Always a little truth in rumors.

- RHARHAK

can confirm resident hunters circling sheep

 

[tstowater]

Based on some feedback that I am getting from a predator control effort intended to help the moose and caribou in the control area, the sheep are being impacted by the predators. Not going to say where as I don't want the efforts to be impacted. The game recovery has been dramatic and the parties involved are going to put as much money in the control effort as they can, and then some.

It's not a simple "blame the _______" as there are many factors affecting the sheep populations and if there are no hunting opportunities, then there will be no support to conserve hunting populations of game animals. As any of you that have taken a hunter education class know, there is a difference between conservation and preservation.

 

[Jacques Etcheverry]

And you should handle predator management for the state. You solved it all in one spring

No where in my my comment did I say it only took one spring to fix something. This is actually year 12 of trapping this area, I can see how this can confuse you.


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[Thunder]

No where in my my comment did I say it only took one spring to fix something. This is actually year 12 of trapping this area, I can see how this can confuse you.


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Well you did say "this spring" Not the last 12 winters/springs

Thanks for taking the time to trap. I'm sure its helping and wish more people would do it. Stay safe out there!

 

[Jacques Etcheverry]

No where in my my comment did I say it only took one spring to fix something. This is actually year 12 of trapping this area, I can see how this can confuse you.


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I should have pointed out that continued predator management does show herd increase of the local sheep populations. With locals in said area noting via trail cameras ( more sheep were spotted traveling after the wolves had been caught)

Also once the rabbit population dropped off 2 years ago we noticed more than a few large lynx tracks up in the hills and have since caught 3 cats each weighing 35# or more- I’m sure they are eating sheep also.


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[Thunder]

I should have pointed out that continued predator management does show herd increase of the local sheep populations. With locals in said area noting via trail cameras ( more sheep were spotted traveling after the wolves had been caught)

Also once the rabbit population dropped off 2 years ago we noticed more than a few large lynx tracks up in the hills and have since caught 3 cats each weighing 35# or more- I’m sure they are eating sheep also.


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Thanks interesting, thanks for sharing!

 

[crich]

There is no money for sheep from fish and game. Caribou and Moose get the lions share. They only use leftover money for sheep counts- most haven't been done in years

Thats interesting. Do you think its because of the large influx of non-res hunters each year to pump cash into the state economy or the local populations influence from being a large part in the subsistence hunts, traditions etc.?

 

[AlaskaMark]

Less sheep taken this year than any previous year, with a high sub-legal take as well. And sub-legal harvest has consistently been about evenly split between guided and unguided hunters. Our earth is changing, and it isn't the kind of changes sheep can handle. Anyone truly invested in sheep conservation needs to understand that while hunting may not be the main cause of our sheep problems, it's the one thing we have control over. And while not all hunting is additive mortality per se (some FC sheep will die from other causes), surely plenty is.

At the last Thinhorn Summit in Anchorage put on by WSF, Bob Cassell and I attended representing RHAK. I got in a bit of trouble when the moderator asked a select group of individuals the question: "What can we do in Alaska to help sheep populations?" I shouted out "KILL LESS SHEEP!"

When we have wildlife population declines, it always ends up as an allocation issue, which then becomes an allocation battle. It sucks, but there it is. We're down to the last thing we can reasonably control in certain areas: Sheep Hunters.

This forum is no different than any others; some just don't want to deal in facts or be respectful and so there can't really be a reasonable rational discussion overall. So it's the same circular rhetoric that doesn't end up helping in the long run.

In closing, if anyone wants to talk further, I'm always available for a phone call or email. You can get that info from the RHAK website. With that I'll be signing off.


Allbest,
Mark