Air Lock Industries Suppressor

DannyB said:
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We did multiple 20 rounds on a 16" 6.5 PRC burn downs back to back, it cool, and it had no issues, I can post as many of those as you want. The reason this one failed is 2 reason, It was BLEM with a chip from a printing error in the end cap and because of the temperatures. Again its a hunting suppressor, we have put thousands of rounds on the ones we did the burn down (I still use it) and it has no issues. I will do 30 rounds, let it cool, 30 rounds, let it cool and do that as much as anyone wants. Same with the PRC burn down.

To be clear, I have nothing against UK, I think they make a good product and would like to keep the comments civil.
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I am being civil. I don’t care about US suppressors or Airlock- there are great cans from lots of companies.
50 rounds of 223 causing damage has no margin of safety. That is a real issue. 20 rounds of 6.5PRC doesn’t say anything either. You are right on the edge of catastrophic failure.
I have been there for more destructive testing of suppressors than most can fathom and have seen what happens when cans are right on the edge of safety- there is no way I would choose a can that gets damaged from 50 rounds of 223.
 
Formidilosus said:
I am being civil. I don’t care about US suppressors or Airlock- there are great cans from lots of companies.
50 rounds of 223 causing damage has no margin of safety. That is a real issue. 20 rounds of 6.5PRC doesn’t say anything either. You are right on the edge of catastrophic failure.
I have been there for more destructive testing of suppressors than most can fathom and have seen what happens when
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Our suppressor traps way more gas than most, so it heats up faster. I’m totally fine with doing destructive testing, heat is the real enemy of titanium. Once it pushes into the 2000° range, the material weakens and any failure points start to show. For a hunting suppressor, what would you want to see in a destructive test? For example, would 20 rounds of PRC through a 16" barrel, let it cool, and repeat that 5-10 times be a good benchmark?


The reason Scythes tend to fail is because of welds - heat creates weak spots there. I’ve seen another thread where someone ran 60 rounds of 7 Rem Mag in 5 minutes, plus 50 rounds of UM, and called the can “ready for production.” What kind of test do you consider safe and realistic? Because we’ve done 20-round strings of PRC on a 16" multiple times in a single day without issues. From what I’ve seen, things only start to fall apart once temps climb past 800–1000°, where titanium begins losing strength.

Again I posted that to be transparent it everything we do, including our sound testing that is on YouTube.
 
I have no dog in this fight but I do find it interesting in that @Formidilosus has responded to criticism around the OG being loud, by arguing that it is quiet enough for the intended use case (being a hunting rifle).. Now he is saying that if a surpressor (that was clearly designed for lightweight hunting rigs in moderate cartridges) can't take a 50 round mag dump from a semi-auto SBR, then it's inadequate as a hunting rifle can? Does the "intended use case" argument not go both ways?

Maybe I'm just completely naive but a surpressor's ability to handle a 50 round mag dump from a semi-auto SBR would be pretty low on my criteria for a my next can. ~10 rounds of 6mm Creedmoor over a 5 minute duration is as much stress as I could ever even imagine putting on it.. I'd understand From's argument if I was shooting 1000s of rounds a week across a multitude of guns. I'm lucky to hit 1000 rounds a year though and just want a lightweight, quiet can to throw on my 6CM and 22 ARC barreled actions for periodic training and hunting purposes.. I'll sacrifice my ability to mag dump SBRs for a lighter and quieter can in my specific use case.
 
Timjohnson11 said:
I have no dog in this fight but I do find it interesting in that @Formidilosus has responded to criticism around the OG being loud, by arguing that it is quiet enough for the intended use case being a hunting rifle.. Now he is saying that if a surpressor (that was clearly designed for lightweight hunting rigs in moderate cartridges) can't take a 50 round mag dump from a semi-auto SBR, then it's inadequate? Does the "intended use case" argument not go both ways?

Maybe I'm just completely naive but a surpressor's ability to handle a 50 round mag dump from a semi-auto SBR would be pretty low on my criteria for a new silencer. ~10 rounds of 6mm Creedmoor over a 10 minute or so duration is as much stress as I could ever even imagine putting on it.. I'd understand From's argument if I was shooting 1000s of rounds a week across a multitude of guns. I'm lucky to hit 1000 rounds a year though and just want a lightweight can to throw on my 6CM and 22 ARC barreled actions for periodic training and hunting purposes..
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I also remember somebody saying bore diameter didn’t matter for sound , and now they are making a 6.5 OG for some reason ….
 
Timjohnson11 said:
I have no dog in this fight but I do find it interesting in that @Formidilosus has responded to criticism around the OG being loud, by arguing that it is quiet enough for the intended use case (being a hunting rifle).. Now he is saying that if a surpressor (that was clearly designed for lightweight hunting rigs in moderate cartridges) can't take a 50 round mag dump from a semi-auto SBR, then it's inadequate as a hunting rifle can? Does the "intended use case" argument not go both ways?

Maybe I'm just completely naive but a surpressor's ability to handle a 50 round mag dump from a semi-auto SBR would be pretty low on my criteria for a my next can. ~10 rounds of 6mm Creedmoor over a 5 minute duration is as much stress as I could ever even imagine putting on it.. I'd understand From's argument if I was shooting 1000s of rounds a week across a multitude of guns. I'm lucky to hit 1000 rounds a year though and just want a lightweight, quiet can to throw on my 6CM and 22 ARC barreled actions for periodic training and hunting purposes.. I'll sacrifice my ability to mag dump SBRs for a lighter and quieter can in my specific use case.
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Yes- safety.


For best available information, 140dBA at the ear is where permanent damage occurs. Once you get to mid 130’s and below, it’s “safe”.

Having a can that is so close to the edge of coming apart, that 50 rounds of 223 damages it, is equivalent to 139.9dBA in sound. Actually it’s worse than that. Poor analogy, but the idea is the same- there is no room for error or margin for safety.
 
DannyB said:
For a hunting suppressor, what would you want to see in a destructive test?
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This is a really good question and one that new industries always struggle with. What's the most relevant test, what predicts good outcomes and low failure rates in typical use scenarios?

There's a million "destructive tests" of knives on youtube, where they baton it through steel, or hack at a rock with it. They're all borderline useless. And if someone builds a knife around those qualifications, it's not going to help me with the tasks I actually use a knife for.

Suppressors aren't new, but their widespread use is - at least in the US. Seems like there's going to be a lot of chaos and disagreement (pewscience vs suppressor summit, etc) for awhile before we, hopefully, end up with some industry standards.
 
Timjohnson11 said:
I have no dog in this fight but I do find it interesting in that @Formidilosus has responded to criticism around the OG being loud, by arguing that it is quiet enough for the intended use case (being a hunting rifle).. Now he is saying that if a surpressor (that was clearly designed for lightweight hunting rigs in moderate cartridges) can't take a 50 round mag dump from a semi-auto SBR, then it's inadequate as a hunting rifle can? Does the "intended use case" argument not go both ways?

Maybe I'm just completely naive but a surpressor's ability to handle a 50 round mag dump from a semi-auto SBR would be pretty low on my criteria for a my next can. ~10 rounds of 6mm Creedmoor over a 5 minute duration is as much stress as I could ever even imagine putting on it.. I'd understand From's argument if I was shooting 1000s of rounds a week across a multitude of guns. I'm lucky to hit 1000 rounds a year though and just want a lightweight, quiet can to throw on my 6CM and 22 ARC barreled actions for periodic training and hunting purposes.. I'll sacrifice my ability to mag dump SBRs for a lighter and quieter can in my specific use case.
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Two things: one, this conversation didn’t start with Form responding to criticism of the OG. Form simply commented on the Airlock’s failure - as he has done for hundreds of pieces of gear. Presswood’s whataboutism then tried to deflect from that concern by falsely calling the OG the loudest suppressor on the market (or words to that effect).

Two, a suppressor that blows up is unsafe. It creates a danger to the shooter and those around the shooter. There are people currently suing one particular company for severe and likely permanent injuries from a suppressor blowing up.

If a company wants to sell a device that blows up with the caveat that “this device is known to blow up after 50 rounds of rapid fire 5.56,” then they can go right ahead. They can print it in large letters on the side of the can, just like the warnings that tell people not to swan dive into the shallow end of a swimming hole. And then some idiot might not end up owning their company after it blows up in their face. But I would prefer to make - and use - a can that won’t fail. Or that has the failure parameters clearly laid out and which the consumer must acknowledge.

And that’s not me playing favorites. I have been critical of the OG. But I respect it for what it is and it works really well at making every cartridge I have put through it hearing safe. When I shoot it at the range, wearing plugs, I can’t tell the difference between it and my AB Raptor 8 with 3” reflex. Maybe someone off to the side could tell? But I, the shooter cannot. And, unlike my Scythe, I love that I never worry about my OG or AB suppressors launching downrange.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”
 
Q_Sertorius said:
Two things: one, this conversation didn’t start with Form responding to criticism of the OG. Form simply commented on the Airlock’s failure - as he has done for hundreds of pieces of gear. Presswood’s whataboutism then tried to deflect from that concern by falsely calling the OG the loudest suppressor on the market (or words to that effect).

Two, a suppressor that blows up is unsafe. It creates a danger to the shooter and those around the shooter. There are people currently suing one particular company for severe and likely permanent injuries from a suppressor blowing up.

If a company wants to sell a device that blows up with the caveat that “this device is known to blow up after 50 rounds of rapid fire 5.56,” then they can go right ahead. They can print it in large letters on the side of the can, just like the warnings that tell people not to swan dive into the shallow end of a swimming hole. And then some idiot might not end up owning their company after it blows up in their face. But I would prefer to make - and use - a can that won’t fail. Or that has the failure parameters clearly laid out and which the consumer must acknowledge.

And that’s not me playing favorites. I have been critical of the OG. But I respect it for what it is and it works really well at making every cartridge I have put through it hearing safe. When I shoot it at the range, wearing plugs, I can’t tell the difference between it and my AB Raptor 8 with 3” reflex. Maybe someone off to the side could tell? But I, the shooter cannot. And, unlike my Scythe, I love that I never worry about my OG or AB suppressors launching downrange.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”
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Hearing safe ? You said the OG made your ears ring on a bolt action 18” 6.5 Grendel … come on man . The OG is roughly equivalent to my raptor 4 with 3 inch reflex
 
Presswood_936 said:
Is it as loud as the OG ? Because the OG might be the loudest bolt action silencer on the market
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Thank you for convincing me not to believe anything else you have to say. You didn’t respond to a valid failure for the device you have been promoting here. You went with deflection and criticism of another device. I don’t know if you are directly affiliated with Airlock, but if you worked PR or marketing for me, I would fire you.

The correct response to that was “that video demonstrates a use case that is outside our published parameters.”


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”
 
Q_Sertorius said:
Something can make your ears ring and still be hearing safe. At least according to my audiologist and various online sources.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”
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I’m not affiliated with airlock in any way . I paid full price for the airlock and OG . You keep shooting the OG with earplugs in and I’ll keep shooting my airlock without .
 
Presswood_936 said:
I’m not affiliated with airlock in any way . I paid full price for the airlock and OG . You keep shooting the OG with earplugs in and I’ll keep shooting my airlock without .
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Please pay attention to the OSHA guidelines that recommend no more than one exposure over 120 dBA per 15 minutes.

PS - after researching it further these past three months, I no longer shoot anything - except hunting shots - without double or triple protection. And I am selling or retiring all my unsuppressed rifles.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”
 
5811 said:
Really? I was under the impression that ringing = damage. There's nuance in permanent vs temporary damage, but it's still damage.
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Yes, that was my original understanding as well. That is why I looked into it further. You can permanently damage your ears without ringing. And ringing is not automatically a sign of permanent damage.

At any rate, shooting without all reasonable hearing protection is pretty stupid.


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“Keep on keepin’ on…”
 
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