AB Raptor suppressor - Reflex

[GreyBeck]

I read it the same as you. Running 7.62 or smaller diameter, you can run flush. But if running magnum calibers it requires a minimum 2” reflex. If you use between 7.62 and .338 with a magnum caliber, a minimum 3” reflex is required.

that's how i read it first.
when i ordered a 1" reflex on my next can i called w/a question. they explained that on a 6.5prc flush or 2"reflex minimum - the 1" wouldn't work. I notice so little difference in the reflex that sometimes i use a 3" with a 6 stack but it's still not as quiet as a flush 8 stack on 7prc.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I read it the same as you. Running 7.62 or smaller diameter, you can run flush. But if running magnum calibers it requires a minimum 2” reflex. If you use between 7.62 and .338 with a magnum caliber, a minimum 3” reflex is required.

Its best to just email their support with your specifics, their recommendations are conservative and a SAUM is a heck of alot different than a RUM even though both are "magnums". For instance they said they weren't concerned with a 300wsm on a 20" barrel when I asked. The amount of powder capacity of the cartridge is a factor.

 

[J.L. Conley]

When you all have returned your can and reflex for a swap with AB, did you get a return label from AB or risk mailing on your own? I’m skeptical of returning it on my own after some research. According to AB I just need to send it however (ups is fastest according to AB.) Include a copy of my form 4. But after looking around I notice most of the big shipping companies prohibit these items. I’ve not had good luck with USPS or UPS, so I’d definitely be getting full insurance. But if something did happen, the carrier likely woulda’t honor the insurance claim, because it’s a “prohibited item.”
AB says, as long as their turn around is 24hrs or less it doesn’t need to be “on their books or sent via FFL.”
Should I wait until Monday and ask AB for return label, or send it UPS signature required now….?
Any advice appreciated, trying to hurry this along for an upcoming CO bull tag.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

When you all have returned your can and reflex for a swap with AB,

Why would you send your can in to swap the reflux? Just sent the reflex.

Aside from keeping your suppressor and direct thread for your hunt (if needed), you aren’t shipping and insuring the valuable serial number item that the waiting process and your tax stamp are tied to.

 

[Bluefish]

When you all have returned your can and reflex for a swap with AB, did you get a return label from AB or risk mailing on your own? I’m skeptical of returning it on my own after some research. According to AB I just need to send it however (ups is fastest according to AB.) Include a copy of my form 4. But after looking around I notice most of the big shipping companies prohibit these items. I’ve not had good luck with USPS or UPS, so I’d definitely be getting full insurance. But if something did happen, the carrier likely woulda’t honor the insurance claim, because it’s a “prohibited item.”
AB says, as long as their turn around is 24hrs or less it doesn’t need to be “on their books or sent via FFL.”
Should I wait until Monday and ask AB for return label, or send it

Why would you send your can in to swap the reflux? Just sent the reflex.

Aside from keeping your suppressor and direct thread for your hunt (if needed), you aren’t shipping and insuring the valuable serial number item that the waiting process and your tax stamp are tied to.

When I swapped mine they wanted the whole can. Would not just send a reflex. Same as when I swapped baffles in my JK. Had to send in the whole can.

 

[J.L. Conley]

Yes I thought sending the whole can was crazy too. Especially since I can buy essentially the same thing from other manufacturers, without a can, no issues. But AB said whole can when I called last week. Basically since it’s screwed to the can, it’s considered a part of the suppressor per ATF/AB, based on how AB described it to me. I guess it didn’t start out that way, from what I’ve read.
AB gave me an RMA form, and I spoke with them directly. The shipping label didn’t cross my mind at the time. Got cold feet this morning, decided to wait until Monday, after I call AB.
$1400+++ is too much for me to gamble

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Yes I thought sending the whole can was crazy too. Especially since I can buy essentially the same thing from other manufacturers, without a can, no issues. But AB said whole can when I called last week. Basically since it’s screwed to the can, it’s considered a part of the suppressor per ATF/AB, based on how AB described it to me. I guess it didn’t start out that way, from what I’ve read.
AB gave me an RMA form, and I spoke with them directly. The shipping label didn’t cross my mind at the time. Got cold feet this morning, decided to wait until Monday, after I call AB.
$1400+++ is too much for me to gamble

That is weird you have to send the whole can.

Anyways yes there didn't start out that way and was one of the cool concepts around AB that you had both swappable reflex and end caps to optimize the performance of the separate serial numbered suppressor (which can be used without the reflex hence its not "part" of the suppressor imho). The ATF first said they couldn't sell the reflex separate and later said they couldn't sell the end caps separate. The ATF has told other manufacturer's they can't sell end caps separate too. I have no idea why the inconsistency in application of the ridiculous ATF interpretations but don't take it for granted that other manufacturers sell end caps, all it takes is the ATF putting them on notice and that comes to a screeching halt.

 

[SloppyJ]

Whole can as the ATF considers the reflex part as part of the suppressor which is why you can't buy a new one. They've been having ATF issues on their end caps too which seems very odd to me. I don't know if AB pissed off someone at the ATF but they seem to be holding them to different rules.

I shipped mine USPS insured for $1k and they make it point to turn it around within a day so they don't have to log it into their system. Super easy and painless. They sent me some patches and stickers back too.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Whole can as the ATF considers the reflex part as part of the suppressor which is why you can't buy a new one. They've been having ATF issues on their end caps too which seems very odd to me. I don't know if AB pissed off someone at the ATF but they seem to be holding them to different rules.

The whole thing is odd, they consider them part of the suppressor because they aid in reducing decibels. However the suppressor comes with a direct thread adapter and can be used without the reflex, where as the reflex does jack shit without the suppressor. That is where the ATF's argument falls on its face. The baffle stack is the "suppressor". Mind you its absolutely bullshit we have suppressors under ATF control but setting that aside, why is the ATF being a pain the ass about accessories? Just piss off already and collect the $200 for the baffle stack and aspect that actually is the suppressor.

 

[Nine Banger]

The whole thing is odd, they consider them part of the suppressor because they aid in reducing decibels. However the suppressor comes with a direct thread adapter and can be used without the reflex, where as the reflex does jack shit without the suppressor. That is where the ATF's argument falls on its face. The baffle stack is the "suppressor". Mind you its absolutely bullshit we have suppressors under ATF control but setting that aside, why is the ATF being a pain the ass about accessories? Just piss off already and collect the $200 for the baffle stack and aspect that actually is the suppressor.

My AB reflex has one baffle in it. Maybe that is the issue?

I'd like to see suppressors and SBR fall off the radar if we can't get the entire NFA act retired in the near term.

 

[SloppyJ]

I think the fact that it cannot be used by itself and the main body functions as normal without it is a pretty strong case against it being regulated. Same with end caps. I'm not sure I'd consider the reflex as a baffle and don't know of any that have a baffle but maybe they do. My 3" sure doesn't. Just areas to weld the internal support to the outer shell. I've been using my shorter suppressors more often but still love my 10 stack.

My FFL told me they were having issues getting AB end caps and I cannot find any available. I live within a couple hours of where they're made and the dealers seem to have a good line of communication with them.

I think anyone who has been through the process can safely say that the system is broken and serves no purpose other than being a PITA on purpose.

Get the ATF out of SBRs and suppressors. I can totally see the case for full auto but it should be streamlined as a process instead of an obstacle. If not, it should be abolished.

 

[Bluefish]

The crazy part is none of the paperwork shows the reflex as the length listed on the form 4 is without the reflex. Also reflexes are not serialized, so unless AB keeps great records of which can has which reflex, there is no way for the ATF to know what you should have.

 

[J.L. Conley]

Super easy and painless. They sent me some patches and stickers back too.

You had me looking forward to some stickers or freebies, I got nothing, except a new cardboard shipping box.
I ended up sending it ups ($65) after talking to AB. They didn’t want to send a return label, even offering to pay for it. So I shipped it back, paid the $50 for reflex swap, also purchased a raptor adapter, 1/2-28 5/8-24 thread adapter, and an extra 1/2-28 flush mount. While the process was fairly simple, it was a lot of extra. Especially considering price of the can, tax stamp, wait, etc. etc, I was expecting at least one sticker or a thank you on an invoice, anything…
Hell I didn’t even get a sticker with the can itself.
I’ll never be part of the expensive AB sticker/patch club.
Dead Air sent free patches, stickers, and a logo burn proof molle pouch with their can. And stickers with every accessory purchase.

Hopefully it lives up to the hype in the field, won’t have anything to represent otherwise. It’s the little things! lol

 

[SloppyJ]

You had me looking forward to some stickers or freebies, I got nothing, except a new cardboard shipping box.
I ended up sending it ups ($65) after talking to AB. They didn’t want to send a return label, even offering to pay for it. So I shipped it back, paid the $50 for reflex swap, also purchased a raptor adapter, 1/2-28 5/8-24 thread adapter, and an extra 1/2-28 flush mount. While the process was fairly simple, it was a lot of extra. Especially considering price of the can, tax stamp, wait, etc. etc, I was expecting at least one sticker or a thank you on an invoice, anything…
Hell I didn’t even get a sticker with the can itself.
I’ll never be part of the expensive AB sticker/patch club.
Dead Air sent free patches, stickers, and a logo burn proof molle pouch with their can. And stickers with every accessory purchase.

Hopefully it lives up to the hype in the field, won’t have anything to represent otherwise. It’s the little things! lol

Dang man. That sucks. Maybe you pissed them off trying to get the label. I shipped usps with $1k insurance for like $25. Had it back within the week but I live 3hrs away from them.

I think they've gotten a LOT bigger since I sent mine in though. There was hardly any info out on them when I got mine. I think you'll love it either way.

 

[SloppyJ]

The crazy part is none of the paperwork shows the reflex as the length listed on the form 4 is without the reflex. Also reflexes are not serialized, so unless AB keeps great records of which can has which reflex, there is no way for the ATF to know what you should have.

Somehow the ATF classifies it as a part of the suppressor even though it can function without. I imagine it has something to do with it being part of it when you purchase. I wonder if they "sold" the cans with a standard flush mount and offered a "free" reflex if that would change anything?

 

[Bluefish]

Somehow the ATF classifies it as a part of the suppressor even though it can function without. I imagine it has something to do with it being part of it when you purchase. I wonder if they "sold" the cans with a standard flush mount and offered a "free" reflex if that would change anything?

The reflex also does nothing by itself. It’s the atf making up rules. I believe they took the same stance with endcaps. Hence AB will no longer sell caliber specific end caps.

Yet other manufacturers sell direct mount adapters and end caps. Makes no sense and seems quite arbitrary. Makes it look like the ATF is just trying to make life as difficult for a manufacturer as possible.

 

[Reburn]

Makes it look like the ATF is just trying to make life as difficult for a manufacturer as possible.

It seems like any government agency’s primary job is to make things as difficult and painful as possible and complain that they need more people to grow their agency.

Plus its more agencies interpreting and making rules and regulations instead of letting judicial and legislative branches do their job.

 

[AZ_Hunter]

Does anyone have the weights the different reflex options? I have emailed AB twice and no answer. Thanks

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

This is what they emailed me previously (I haven't back checked it against my 3"): The weights for the 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5" reflex are 3.2oz, 4oz, 4.7oz, 5.4oz, and 6.1oz.

 

[ElPollo]

This is what they emailed me previously (I haven't back checked it against my 3"): The weights for the 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5" reflex are 3.2oz, 4oz, 4.7oz, 5.4oz, and 6.1oz.

@AZ_Hunter
My 3” sporter-profile reflex has a crapload of carbon in it and weighs 4.6 oz. 8-stack and 3” is 13.4 oz. I’m guessing 2500ish rounds through it without cleaning. I bought this can with the expectation of using it without the reflex during hunting to cut weight. But I almost never take it off.